5 ms·

I'm sorry, but it was completely irresponsible for her to rack up 400k in student debt in the first place.

by seansmccullough 11y ago

mfringel 11y ago
I'm guessing you're not sorry at all. Just blame her. It's more honest.
- bsamuels 11y ago
  in order to take out federal student loans, you have to go through a big online educational program on the risks of loans, the dangers of interest, and how youll screwed if you take out too much. I wouldn't blame the woman in the article because this program was likely before her time, but I would certainly blame anyone who takes out too much now.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - delecti 11y ago
    I graduated with over $80k in student loans and I don't recall anything like what you're describing. I also know that if I had gone through something like that at 18, it would have made precisely zero impression on me.
    - pkaye 11y ago
      At what age do you think it would make an impression?
      - delecti 11y ago
        I think there would need to be more substantial financial education over a longer period of time. I'm not sure there's any other way for someone who hasn't supported themselves to understand.
    - function_seven 11y ago
      > also know that if I had gone through something like that at 18, it would have made precisely zero impression on me. Honest question. Do you think the age of majority should be raised form 18 to some higher age? (Like 21?). I hear a lot of this sentiment when discussing student loans, and it makes me think that if one is not capable of understanding the consequences of their financial decisions at 18, then their parents should still be in charge of their life.
      - Bjartr 11y ago
        I lean towards thinking that a good amount of maturity comes from experience, so simply sheltering people from the world for longer will only push the age of maturity further out. There should be a more common, encouraged (not forced) mechanism where young people can learn to deal with financial problems before the consequences can ruin their life.
  - Bjartr 11y ago
    Having taken federal student loans when I was 18 (since repaid) I can say I have absolutely zero memory of any kind of educational program that taught me about loans. In fact, it was only after I'd finished paying them off that I learned student loans couldn't be discharged through bankruptcy. That fact wasn't relevant for me, but if life had thrown me a few more curveballs it easily could have been.
- seansmccullough 11y ago
  I am sorry, I wish she had made better choices and had a better outcome.
michaelmcdonald 11y ago
This. She started down one path, gave up on it to pursue another, gave up on it after getting ill and continue down the original. However this time around she thought she needed to immediately get her graduate degrees just so she could earn the "highest possible income". Stupid mistake. Let's count the ways she could have prevented this: 1. stick with the original plan of becoming a teacher. Take out minimal loans, work, pay off loans. 2. move towards a degree in law and complete the degree after her illness. Work, pay off loans. 3. get a teaching job after her illness, hold off on the graduate degree, work, pay off loans. I have no sympathy for her. She clearly couldn't afford college (which is acceptable, that's why loans exist); however she also couldn't think to budget or plan financially for the future. She should have stuck to a single path and slowly worked forward rather than trying to do everything in as short a time as possible.
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  The first problem with college in America is that it assumes college students are fully-formed adults who know what careers they want to have for the rest of their lives. The second problem is that college has become the mandatory mealticket into the middle class.
  - bko 11y ago
    Most traditional US colleges don't have students specialize until junior and senior years. There is plenty of opportunity to figure out what you want to do. In addition, many people don't use their majors in their future careers as well: > A new survey from CareerBuilder suggests that plenty of Americans never work in the field that they prepared for in college. Among the 2,134 workers surveyed, 47 percent of college graduates did not find a first job that was related to their college major. What's more, 32 percent of college grads said that they had never worked in a field related to their majors. [0] Also, if the student is not an adult, perhaps granting federally subsidized cheap credit is ill advised. [0] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-study-shows-careers-and-college-majors-often-dont-match/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-study-shows-careers-and-coll...
    - 11y ago
danharaj 11y ago
Credit and Debt always involve two parties. Student loans are a stupid instrument because there is hardly any way for the debtor to default. That is a perversion of the very idea of credit. It should be the responsibility of creditors to deal with the risk of default, not saddle people who cannot pay with debt for the rest of their lives. That's how it's supposed to work. Also, so what if it was irresponsible? Does being irresponsible mean that you deserve all of the consequences of your actions and no further examination or thought is necessary? That's just terrible black-and-white legalism. Legalism sucks.
jlarocco 11y ago
It's really inexcusable. I can't believe the NYT is trying to play it off as the big, bad student loan system. Naive 18 year olds taking out giant loans is one thing, but this lady was never in that position. "She briefly enrolled in an education Ph.D. program at Texas A&M before withdrawing, but not fast enough to avoid an additional $7,458 in loans." Unbelievable. Makes it sound like student loans are just lurking around waiting to attack unsuspecting victims.

I'm sorry, but it was completely irresponsible for her to rack up 400k in student debt in the first place.

mfringel 11y ago

I'm guessing you're not sorry at all. Just blame her. It's more honest.

bsamuels 11y ago
in order to take out federal student loans, you have to go through a big online educational program on the risks of loans, the dangers of interest, and how youll screwed if you take out too much. I wouldn't blame the woman in the article because this program was likely before her time, but I would certainly blame anyone who takes out too much now.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- delecti 11y ago
  I graduated with over $80k in student loans and I don't recall anything like what you're describing. I also know that if I had gone through something like that at 18, it would have made precisely zero impression on me.
  - pkaye 11y ago
    At what age do you think it would make an impression?
    - delecti 11y ago
      I think there would need to be more substantial financial education over a longer period of time. I'm not sure there's any other way for someone who hasn't supported themselves to understand.
  - function_seven 11y ago
    > also know that if I had gone through something like that at 18, it would have made precisely zero impression on me. Honest question. Do you think the age of majority should be raised form 18 to some higher age? (Like 21?). I hear a lot of this sentiment when discussing student loans, and it makes me think that if one is not capable of understanding the consequences of their financial decisions at 18, then their parents should still be in charge of their life.
    - Bjartr 11y ago
      I lean towards thinking that a good amount of maturity comes from experience, so simply sheltering people from the world for longer will only push the age of maturity further out. There should be a more common, encouraged (not forced) mechanism where young people can learn to deal with financial problems before the consequences can ruin their life.
- Bjartr 11y ago
  Having taken federal student loans when I was 18 (since repaid) I can say I have absolutely zero memory of any kind of educational program that taught me about loans. In fact, it was only after I'd finished paying them off that I learned student loans couldn't be discharged through bankruptcy. That fact wasn't relevant for me, but if life had thrown me a few more curveballs it easily could have been.
seansmccullough 11y ago
I am sorry, I wish she had made better choices and had a better outcome.

michaelmcdonald 11y ago

This. She started down one path, gave up on it to pursue another, gave up on it after getting ill and continue down the original. However this time around she thought she needed to immediately get her graduate degrees just so she could earn the "highest possible income". Stupid mistake. Let's count the ways she could have prevented this: 1. stick with the original plan of becoming a teacher. Take out minimal loans, work, pay off loans. 2. move towards a degree in law and complete the degree after her illness. Work, pay off loans. 3. get a teaching job after her illness, hold off on the graduate degree, work, pay off loans. I have no sympathy for her. She clearly couldn't afford college (which is acceptable, that's why loans exist); however she also couldn't think to budget or plan financially for the future. She should have stuck to a single path and slowly worked forward rather than trying to do everything in as short a time as possible.

Apocryphon 11y ago
The first problem with college in America is that it assumes college students are fully-formed adults who know what careers they want to have for the rest of their lives. The second problem is that college has become the mandatory mealticket into the middle class.
- bko 11y ago
  Most traditional US colleges don't have students specialize until junior and senior years. There is plenty of opportunity to figure out what you want to do. In addition, many people don't use their majors in their future careers as well: > A new survey from CareerBuilder suggests that plenty of Americans never work in the field that they prepared for in college. Among the 2,134 workers surveyed, 47 percent of college graduates did not find a first job that was related to their college major. What's more, 32 percent of college grads said that they had never worked in a field related to their majors. [0] Also, if the student is not an adult, perhaps granting federally subsidized cheap credit is ill advised. [0] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-study-shows-careers-and-college-majors-often-dont-match/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-study-shows-careers-and-coll...
  - 11y ago

danharaj 11y ago

Credit and Debt always involve two parties. Student loans are a stupid instrument because there is hardly any way for the debtor to default. That is a perversion of the very idea of credit. It should be the responsibility of creditors to deal with the risk of default, not saddle people who cannot pay with debt for the rest of their lives. That's how it's supposed to work. Also, so what if it was irresponsible? Does being irresponsible mean that you deserve all of the consequences of your actions and no further examination or thought is necessary? That's just terrible black-and-white legalism. Legalism sucks.

jlarocco 11y ago

It's really inexcusable. I can't believe the NYT is trying to play it off as the big, bad student loan system. Naive 18 year olds taking out giant loans is one thing, but this lady was never in that position. "She briefly enrolled in an education Ph.D. program at Texas A&M before withdrawing, but not fast enough to avoid an additional $7,458 in loans." Unbelievable. Makes it sound like student loans are just lurking around waiting to attack unsuspecting victims.