2 ms·

Fine - a degree is like a condom: it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Trust me - you'll thank me at the first round of layof

Fine - a degree is like a condom: it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Trust me - you'll thank me at the first round of layoffs.

dsacco 11y ago
Alternatively, better to optimize by spending the four years working and building up experience/money than going into debt for a degree that is no longer at all necessary for success in the tech industry. I don't mean to say college is a waste of time, only that it is not at all an obvious or simple decision to go to college. It is very possible to skip college entirely and be making $180k per year at 22 or 23 with absolutely no debt in the tech industry. Looked at this way, college can be seen as an opportunity cost rather than an investment. Personally, I think the only reason the OP should seriously consider college is for the visa benefit. Other than that, it would be helpful for fields that require hard engineering and not just programming.
- analognoise 11y ago
  180k in the tech industry with no degree? I call bullshit, unless you deliver trunkloads of cocaine to CEOs of tech companies. Even if it was true, what about at 35? At 40? 50? It's just a continual upward climb, no layoffs, no job seeking, no "obsolescence" issues with your skillset? Are you serious? What, it's just a continual upward trend forever?
  - dsacco 11y ago
    >> 180k in the tech industry with no degree? I call bullshit, unless you deliver trunkloads of cocaine to CEOs of tech companies. I did it. I know others who did it. In fact, I did it in my early 20s. I'm very far ahead of that now, and I have never once struggled with this. I'm not sure how I could prove it to you, so I guess you'd have to take my word for it. I am not saying that this is the outcome everyone receives, but nor do college graduates have consistent outcomes. I have seen friends with top-tier degrees struggle. Did you know that Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Yahoo, Amazon, Netflix and most YC companies will explicitly hire people without a degree? You can achieve this goal by sacrificing four years of potential income history, work experience and a substantial amount of money. You can also achieve this goal with a significant amount of drive, intelligence and luck. It is up to the individual to decide which route is superior for their situation. In OP's case, visa eligibility might make college a very lucrative proposition. >> Even if it was true, what about at 35? At 40? 50? It's just a continual upward climb, no layoffs, no job seeking, no "obsolescence" issues with your skillset? Are you serious? I never said it was an upward trend forever. My assertion is that four years of a six figure salary and experience is a strong argument for not going to college. Are college graduates immune to layoffs? Are they exempt from the ageism and obsolescence inherent in this industry? Are college dropouts one trick ponies who don't understand the underlying theory in lieu of cobbling together different frameworks for CRUD apps? Perhaps most people should go to college, but a not insignificant number of people should not, and almost everyone should critically examine the decision. That's all. It's not a cut and dry decision. Everyone likes to say that the bootcamp grads and the dropouts are the first to be laid off, but I disagree. I think it depends on the individual. I know many dropouts who weathered the storm in the dot-com crash because they were better than college-grads.
pvg 11y ago
Trust me - you'll thank me at the first round of layoffs. I'm afraid I don't. I've been through layoffs and I've had to do some layoffs. Degree has never been a significant factor in either.
- analognoise 11y ago
  Lets clarify: what field & sized companies? Because you can't even get a foot in the door without a degree most places; now I'm curious.
  - HappyTypist 11y ago
    I suspect more conservative (e.g. financial, government) firms may only shortlist those with a degree (especially if hiring is done by non-engineers), but I don't think 'most places' is true. I applied to six places and received two offers, one from where I'm at now and the other from a startup. My Googler friend told me that as long as I can get an interview, simply having a degree or not is 'irrelevant'. Maybe it's not a question of degree, but if you've done anything that sets you above?
  - pvg 11y ago
    You're right, we should narrow it down a bit. Let's call the field 'programming' and the area in question 'most of the US'. Within those constraints, the idea you can't get your foot in the door without a degree seems completely preposterous.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

Fine - a degree is like a condom: it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Trust me - you'll thank me at the first round of layoffs.

dsacco 11y ago

Alternatively, better to optimize by spending the four years working and building up experience/money than going into debt for a degree that is no longer at all necessary for success in the tech industry. I don't mean to say college is a waste of time, only that it is not at all an obvious or simple decision to go to college. It is very possible to skip college entirely and be making $180k per year at 22 or 23 with absolutely no debt in the tech industry. Looked at this way, college can be seen as an opportunity cost rather than an investment. Personally, I think the only reason the OP should seriously consider college is for the visa benefit. Other than that, it would be helpful for fields that require hard engineering and not just programming.

analognoise 11y ago
180k in the tech industry with no degree? I call bullshit, unless you deliver trunkloads of cocaine to CEOs of tech companies. Even if it was true, what about at 35? At 40? 50? It's just a continual upward climb, no layoffs, no job seeking, no "obsolescence" issues with your skillset? Are you serious? What, it's just a continual upward trend forever?
- dsacco 11y ago
  >> 180k in the tech industry with no degree? I call bullshit, unless you deliver trunkloads of cocaine to CEOs of tech companies. I did it. I know others who did it. In fact, I did it in my early 20s. I'm very far ahead of that now, and I have never once struggled with this. I'm not sure how I could prove it to you, so I guess you'd have to take my word for it. I am not saying that this is the outcome everyone receives, but nor do college graduates have consistent outcomes. I have seen friends with top-tier degrees struggle. Did you know that Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Yahoo, Amazon, Netflix and most YC companies will explicitly hire people without a degree? You can achieve this goal by sacrificing four years of potential income history, work experience and a substantial amount of money. You can also achieve this goal with a significant amount of drive, intelligence and luck. It is up to the individual to decide which route is superior for their situation. In OP's case, visa eligibility might make college a very lucrative proposition. >> Even if it was true, what about at 35? At 40? 50? It's just a continual upward climb, no layoffs, no job seeking, no "obsolescence" issues with your skillset? Are you serious? I never said it was an upward trend forever. My assertion is that four years of a six figure salary and experience is a strong argument for not going to college. Are college graduates immune to layoffs? Are they exempt from the ageism and obsolescence inherent in this industry? Are college dropouts one trick ponies who don't understand the underlying theory in lieu of cobbling together different frameworks for CRUD apps? Perhaps most people should go to college, but a not insignificant number of people should not, and almost everyone should critically examine the decision. That's all. It's not a cut and dry decision. Everyone likes to say that the bootcamp grads and the dropouts are the first to be laid off, but I disagree. I think it depends on the individual. I know many dropouts who weathered the storm in the dot-com crash because they were better than college-grads.

pvg 11y ago

Trust me - you'll thank me at the first round of layoffs. I'm afraid I don't. I've been through layoffs and I've had to do some layoffs. Degree has never been a significant factor in either.

analognoise 11y ago
Lets clarify: what field & sized companies? Because you can't even get a foot in the door without a degree most places; now I'm curious.
- HappyTypist 11y ago
  I suspect more conservative (e.g. financial, government) firms may only shortlist those with a degree (especially if hiring is done by non-engineers), but I don't think 'most places' is true. I applied to six places and received two offers, one from where I'm at now and the other from a startup. My Googler friend told me that as long as I can get an interview, simply having a degree or not is 'irrelevant'. Maybe it's not a question of degree, but if you've done anything that sets you above?
- pvg 11y ago
  You're right, we should narrow it down a bit. Let's call the field 'programming' and the area in question 'most of the US'. Within those constraints, the idea you can't get your foot in the door without a degree seems completely preposterous.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]