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Founder Stories: Detroit Water Project’s Tiffani Ashley Bell

44 points by pavornyoh 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
wpietri 11y ago
Great profile. I'm a contributor; if you'd like to be one as well, you can do it here: https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/#donor-form https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/#donor-form It's great to see people with an entrepreneurial spirit tackling problems like this.
petersouth 11y ago
Every city water utility has this same problem. Having close knowledge of the problems, I don't think this is a good solution. Many of the customers get shut off and then immediately pay their bill along with the penalties (approx 3/4). This is often cyclical with the same people getting shutoff every couple months. Appears to me to be administrative. Should have financial people show them how to budget or organize their bills to prevent getting the fees so it doesn't happen again in the long run. Another thing the article points to is a $250 fee for turning on the water. Often when the water is turned on without authorization the utility equipment is damaged. The fix can involve calling out trade workers to saw out parts of streets and sidewalks and replacing expensive brass lead-free parts. $250 would be in the neighborhood of the cost.
jacquesm 11y ago
"Meanwhile, I had been clicking all around on the water company’s website, and I found a 400-page PDF document that was a list of account numbers of people who owed money that the water company supposedly couldn’t deliver bills to by mail. We took one of the account numbers and plugged it into the utility company’s website, and it showed a lot of information: How much was owed, consumption history, payment history. And there was a payment button. " Surprised that information was out in the open, I don't think it should have been. Props to her to make something good out of it. It's also quite strange that the water company would be able to deliver water but the postal service can't deliver mail. Both appear to be tied to the same physical location.
- ams6110 11y ago
  It's Detroit. The entire city is dysfunctional. At one time the policy of the Fire Chief was to just let buildings burn if they were uninhabited, to save fire department resources.
  - elmin 11y ago
    That seems like a decent policy if the resources are truly so limited.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    It's good there has never been a case of one building fire spreading to another.
petersouth 11y ago
Every city water utility has this same problem. Having close knowledge of the problems, I don't think this is a good solution. Many of the customers get shut off and then immediately pay their bill along with the penalties (approx 3/4). This is often cyclical with the same people getting shutoff every couple months. Appears to me to be administrative. Should have financial people show them how to budget or organize their bills to prevent getting the fees so it doesn't happen again in the long run. Another thing the article points to is a $250 fee for turning on the water. Often when the water is turned on without authorization the utility equipment is damaged. The fix can involve calling out trade workers to saw out parts of streets and sidewalks and replacing expensive brass lead-free parts. $250 would be in the neighborhood of the cost.
- tiffani 11y ago
  Founder here. Yes, every utility has this problem. "I don't think this is a good solution to this problem." Why? Why isn't giving people money (direct to the utility, as we never hand people we help the funds) to get their water turned back on when they've gone for weeks without running water not a good solution? When you encounter someone in that situation, what would you suggest? "Many of the customers get shut off and then immediately pay their bill along with the penalties." That's often true, but what many people (including yourself and, oddly, staff at utilities) don't consider is that these people are often robbing Peter to pay Paul. We've got people skimping on medication and food they need in order to keep their utilities on. So, yes, they may pay as soon as the water is shut off, but there's often a trade-off. "This is often cyclical with the same people getting shutoff every couple months. Appears to me to be administrative." This also does happen, but talking to hundreds of families with difficulties paying their water bills, you start seeing patterns. A pattern of multiple shut-offs is usually indicative of some other deeper problem(s). There are people who are between jobs. There are people who've had their hours at work cut. There are people on fixed incomes where even the smallest fluctuation in the water bill (or another bill) can prevent them from paying in full. They pay what they can, but arrearages build up, and next thing you know, service is disconnected. One of the things we're going to begin working with Detroit and Baltimore to do better is pick up on these signals and act. Prevention is always better than treatment. Also, if you consider where we work (Detroit and Baltimore), these aren't exactly places teeming with amazing employment opportunities for many of the people we serve (the elderly, single parents already juggling multiple jobs, people with minimal education, etc.). Obviously, a stable job is a big part of consistently paying your bills. You can hold all the budgeting classes you want, but good luck getting people there who barely have the funds to keep their families afloat to sign up. Not having enough to make ends meet is not always the result of poor budgeting. And yes, illegal service restoration does have the potential to damage equipment, but when your customers have to resort to that, it's indicative that your utility has failed to look after especially vulnerable customers. Detroit is especially odd with respect to indigent customers as they don't have a program to assist low-income customers with a discount or the like. Same goes for the elderly. Baltimore has a discount for the elderly, at least.
brianzelip 11y ago
Great to learn about this. see also their Baltimore project (mentioned in passing): https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/baltimore https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/baltimore

44 points by pavornyoh 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Great profile. I'm a contributor; if you'd like to be one as well, you can do it here: https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/#donor-form https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/#donor-form It's great to see people with an entrepreneurial spirit tackling problems like this.

petersouth 11y ago

Every city water utility has this same problem. Having close knowledge of the problems, I don't think this is a good solution. Many of the customers get shut off and then immediately pay their bill along with the penalties (approx 3/4). This is often cyclical with the same people getting shutoff every couple months. Appears to me to be administrative. Should have financial people show them how to budget or organize their bills to prevent getting the fees so it doesn't happen again in the long run. Another thing the article points to is a $250 fee for turning on the water. Often when the water is turned on without authorization the utility equipment is damaged. The fix can involve calling out trade workers to saw out parts of streets and sidewalks and replacing expensive brass lead-free parts. $250 would be in the neighborhood of the cost.

jacquesm 11y ago

"Meanwhile, I had been clicking all around on the water company’s website, and I found a 400-page PDF document that was a list of account numbers of people who owed money that the water company supposedly couldn’t deliver bills to by mail. We took one of the account numbers and plugged it into the utility company’s website, and it showed a lot of information: How much was owed, consumption history, payment history. And there was a payment button. " Surprised that information was out in the open, I don't think it should have been. Props to her to make something good out of it. It's also quite strange that the water company would be able to deliver water but the postal service can't deliver mail. Both appear to be tied to the same physical location.

ams6110 11y ago
It's Detroit. The entire city is dysfunctional. At one time the policy of the Fire Chief was to just let buildings burn if they were uninhabited, to save fire department resources.
- elmin 11y ago
  That seems like a decent policy if the resources are truly so limited.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  It's good there has never been a case of one building fire spreading to another.

petersouth 11y ago

tiffani 11y ago
Founder here. Yes, every utility has this problem. "I don't think this is a good solution to this problem." Why? Why isn't giving people money (direct to the utility, as we never hand people we help the funds) to get their water turned back on when they've gone for weeks without running water not a good solution? When you encounter someone in that situation, what would you suggest? "Many of the customers get shut off and then immediately pay their bill along with the penalties." That's often true, but what many people (including yourself and, oddly, staff at utilities) don't consider is that these people are often robbing Peter to pay Paul. We've got people skimping on medication and food they need in order to keep their utilities on. So, yes, they may pay as soon as the water is shut off, but there's often a trade-off. "This is often cyclical with the same people getting shutoff every couple months. Appears to me to be administrative." This also does happen, but talking to hundreds of families with difficulties paying their water bills, you start seeing patterns. A pattern of multiple shut-offs is usually indicative of some other deeper problem(s). There are people who are between jobs. There are people who've had their hours at work cut. There are people on fixed incomes where even the smallest fluctuation in the water bill (or another bill) can prevent them from paying in full. They pay what they can, but arrearages build up, and next thing you know, service is disconnected. One of the things we're going to begin working with Detroit and Baltimore to do better is pick up on these signals and act. Prevention is always better than treatment. Also, if you consider where we work (Detroit and Baltimore), these aren't exactly places teeming with amazing employment opportunities for many of the people we serve (the elderly, single parents already juggling multiple jobs, people with minimal education, etc.). Obviously, a stable job is a big part of consistently paying your bills. You can hold all the budgeting classes you want, but good luck getting people there who barely have the funds to keep their families afloat to sign up. Not having enough to make ends meet is not always the result of poor budgeting. And yes, illegal service restoration does have the potential to damage equipment, but when your customers have to resort to that, it's indicative that your utility has failed to look after especially vulnerable customers. Detroit is especially odd with respect to indigent customers as they don't have a program to assist low-income customers with a discount or the like. Same goes for the elderly. Baltimore has a discount for the elderly, at least.

brianzelip 11y ago

Great to learn about this. see also their Baltimore project (mentioned in passing): https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/baltimore https://www.detroitwaterproject.org/baltimore