4 ms·

So maintaining the 'justice system' is an ends in itself? Not an end in itself, but I'd say it's a very important component in maintaining an ordered society.

So maintaining the 'justice system' is an ends in itself? Not an end in itself, but I'd say it's a very important component in maintaining an ordered society. Whether you consider that to be a worthwhile end may depend on your political leanings; I'm a Canadian, and where the US constitution exhorts the "blessings of liberty", ours speaks of "peace, order, and good government".

nickff 11y ago
My political leanings are skeptical; it seems to me that the objectives of the police and prosectors are (respectively) to preserve the police and the prosecutors. When crime increases, the police say they are underfunded and overworked, while prosecutors call for additional funding and powers. When crime goes down, they claim it is thanks to their intelligence and dilligence. Both groups are also known for avoiding being held responsible when they fail at their jobs (such as by shooting unarmed people who happen to also be naked, or convicting the innocent through fraudulent evidence).[1][2] Are the police and prosecutors really focused and achieving the maintenance of an ordered society, or are they just keeping their jobs? [1] http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/us/georgia-officer-fatal-shooting/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/us/georgia-officer-fatal-shoot... [2] too many citations to put here
- cperciva 11y ago
  I never said that I thought we should protect every individual member of the justice system. Quite to the contrary, I think preserving and enhancing the public trust in the justice system requires that individuals who have acted abusively are not protected.
  - nickff 11y ago
    My point was not that there have been individual failures, but that the 'justice system' is plagued by a lack of accountability, misaligned incentives, and entire organizations who do not feel any obligation to the citizenry.

nickff 11y ago

My political leanings are skeptical; it seems to me that the objectives of the police and prosectors are (respectively) to preserve the police and the prosecutors. When crime increases, the police say they are underfunded and overworked, while prosecutors call for additional funding and powers. When crime goes down, they claim it is thanks to their intelligence and dilligence. Both groups are also known for avoiding being held responsible when they fail at their jobs (such as by shooting unarmed people who happen to also be naked, or convicting the innocent through fraudulent evidence).[1][2] Are the police and prosecutors really focused and achieving the maintenance of an ordered society, or are they just keeping their jobs? [1] http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/us/georgia-officer-fatal-shooting/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/us/georgia-officer-fatal-shoot... [2] too many citations to put here

cperciva 11y ago
I never said that I thought we should protect every individual member of the justice system. Quite to the contrary, I think preserving and enhancing the public trust in the justice system requires that individuals who have acted abusively are not protected.
- nickff 11y ago
  My point was not that there have been individual failures, but that the 'justice system' is plagued by a lack of accountability, misaligned incentives, and entire organizations who do not feel any obligation to the citizenry.