5 ms·

Building for HTTP/2

71 points by saidajigumi 11y ago

meddlepal 11y ago
I though TLS wasn't a requirement of HTTP/2? Did that change?
- alexdom 11y ago
  It is not mandatory in the specification, but all major browsers have decided to require it. [1][2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption_2
krschultz 11y ago
Nice to see an in-depth article on a topic working it's way up Hacker News. There's no hyperbole, just solid recommendations based on facts.
percept 11y ago
"Files loaded by the scout can have extremely long cache times because the scout loads resources from versioned URLs: when a resource is updated, it is hosted at a new URL, and the scout is updated to load the resource from that new URL."
holloway 11y ago
It's been found that resource concatenation is still more efficient http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2.htm http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2.... And 'building for http2' seems to be advocating hashes in filenames without neccesarily walking the dependencies, which can have cache problems http://holloway.nz/r/hashes-in-filenames/ http://holloway.nz/r/hashes-in-filenames/ ES6 imports are static (you can't use JS to dynamically include a file) so this means transitive dependencies need to be resolved at build time, not by using a manifest file which resolves paths clientside. This also applies to (eg) SVGs that reference JPEGs because you probably don't want JS involved there either. Manifest files are a bad idea, except perhaps for instructing webservers to tell browsers to preemptively download files. AFAIK there isn't a standard for this yet so a manifest doesn't solve the problem. Ps. I've got a gulp build for http2-style packing and I'll release it on my github in a few weeks (same account as my username)
- magicalist 11y ago
  > It's been found that resource concatenation is still more efficient http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2....* http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2.... for a page with 2.4MB of JS spread over 296 files. And, notably, the article doesn't advocate for serving individual files in the first place, but instead says that some level of grouping is likely advantageous, but http2 gives new opportunities which will need to be explored, like grouping by level of churn in libraries or by units of functionality > And 'building for http2' seems to be advocating hashes in filenames without neccesarily walking the dependencies I believe you misread. They use a shallow tree in their scout js file; all of the resources a page will need are declared there and nothing is loaded in succession. > Manifest files are a bad idea, except perhaps for instructing webservers to tell browsers to preemptively download files. AFAIK there isn't a standard for this yet so a manifest doesn't solve the problem I'm not sure what this means. The manifest is generated by the build process. There is no standard for dependency manifests, sure, but there's no reason you can't whip a reasonable one up that a simple server module could understand if you wanted to add push support. Eventually the cow paths will be paved and we'll come up with a more standardized approach (or approaches) to that kind of manifest.
  - holloway 11y ago
    > for a page with 2.4MB of JS spread over 296 files. Fair point, there is always sweet spot in benchmarks like this. That said there are examples of delays that they mention which seem to be independent of the amount of requests. >> I believe you misread. They use a shallow tree in their scout js file; all of the resources a page will need are declared there Being shallow doesn't fix the problem when resources are split up at all and that's what the article (correctly) suggests to benefit from HTTP/2 features. As we move away from a single bundle.js file we need to think more about how to manage splits. E.g. The article talks about splitting into `application` and `vendor` hashes, and you mention grouping by churn or functionality. So presumably we agree that being able to split files without significant speed loss is a major feature of HTTP/2. All I'm suggesting is that the filename hashing strategies need to be improved to avoid application errors when splitting. If we don't improve filename hashing strategies then we'd still have to rely on small HTTP cache durations, or we'd get temporary errors while caches expire, which is a problem because the whole point of the article is to have extremely long cache durations. As they say, "Files loaded by the scout can have extremely long cache times because [...]" Then as the article says, "This can be solved by using hashes of the file contents rather than version numbers: vendor-d41d8cd98f.js. If a file has not changed, its hash will remain the same." This is bad advice because they don't talk about dependencies affecting hashes. Even if that file hasn't changed but it depends on another file then its hash needs to change too, or else application.js will will have different contents depending on when it was loaded. Eg. application.js has a requirejs import of vendor.js requirejs(["vendor.js"], function(vendor){ }); So if we generated a naive hash as suggested then application-45345345345.js might look like, requirejs(["vendor-3455345ABCDFFF.js"], function(vendor){ }); Then vendor.js changes but application.js doesn't, and so application-45345345345.js is updated to read, requirejs(["vendor-f2ab4cde6f55.js"], function(vendor){ }); And now you can see the problem that application.js didn't change but it's dependencies did, so application-45345345345.js will have different data depending on when you access it which is exactly what you don't want with long HTTP cache durations. This can cause mismatches in what version of a file is imported, and cause application errors. The only way to have permanent URLs with content that doesn't change (a prerequisite for long HTTP cache durations) is to include dependencies in the calculation of filename hashes. Or you could have an dynamic resolver (eg. based on a manifest file) but ES6 and SVG have static imports. More to the point though, if you can resolve it at build time why not? When they say "This can be solved by using hashes of the file contents" this is a fundamental mistake and it's simply bad advice.
deftnerd 11y ago
I've been trying to use SubResource Integrity on all my sites as well as Content-Security-Policy headers. This makes it so it's better to link to static assets rather than embed javascript or CSS within the page. Using HTTP2 has meant that there are no longer any performance downsides to multiple include directives. I'm pretty happy about that.
rmdoss 11y ago
He mentioned CDN's not supporting HTTP/2. I am pretty sure a few them do. Including https://keycdn.com https://keycdn.com, https://sucuri.net https://sucuri.net, Akamai and likely a few more.

Building for HTTP/2

71 points by saidajigumi 11y ago

meddlepal 11y ago

I though TLS wasn't a requirement of HTTP/2? Did that change?

alexdom 11y ago
It is not mandatory in the specification, but all major browsers have decided to require it. [1][2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/2#Encryption_2

krschultz 11y ago

Nice to see an in-depth article on a topic working it's way up Hacker News. There's no hyperbole, just solid recommendations based on facts.

percept 11y ago

"Files loaded by the scout can have extremely long cache times because the scout loads resources from versioned URLs: when a resource is updated, it is hosted at a new URL, and the scout is updated to load the resource from that new URL."

holloway 11y ago

It's been found that resource concatenation is still more efficient http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2.htm http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2.... And 'building for http2' seems to be advocating hashes in filenames without neccesarily walking the dependencies, which can have cache problems http://holloway.nz/r/hashes-in-filenames/ http://holloway.nz/r/hashes-in-filenames/ ES6 imports are static (you can't use JS to dynamically include a file) so this means transitive dependencies need to be resolved at build time, not by using a manifest file which resolves paths clientside. This also applies to (eg) SVGs that reference JPEGs because you probably don't want JS involved there either. Manifest files are a bad idea, except perhaps for instructing webservers to tell browsers to preemptively download files. AFAIK there isn't a standard for this yet so a manifest doesn't solve the problem. Ps. I've got a gulp build for http2-style packing and I'll release it on my github in a few weeks (same account as my username)

magicalist 11y ago
> It's been found that resource concatenation is still more efficient http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2....* http://engineering.khanacademy.org/posts/js-packaging-http2.... for a page with 2.4MB of JS spread over 296 files. And, notably, the article doesn't advocate for serving individual files in the first place, but instead says that some level of grouping is likely advantageous, but http2 gives new opportunities which will need to be explored, like grouping by level of churn in libraries or by units of functionality > And 'building for http2' seems to be advocating hashes in filenames without neccesarily walking the dependencies I believe you misread. They use a shallow tree in their scout js file; all of the resources a page will need are declared there and nothing is loaded in succession. > Manifest files are a bad idea, except perhaps for instructing webservers to tell browsers to preemptively download files. AFAIK there isn't a standard for this yet so a manifest doesn't solve the problem I'm not sure what this means. The manifest is generated by the build process. There is no standard for dependency manifests, sure, but there's no reason you can't whip a reasonable one up that a simple server module could understand if you wanted to add push support. Eventually the cow paths will be paved and we'll come up with a more standardized approach (or approaches) to that kind of manifest.
- holloway 11y ago
  > for a page with 2.4MB of JS spread over 296 files. Fair point, there is always sweet spot in benchmarks like this. That said there are examples of delays that they mention which seem to be independent of the amount of requests. >> I believe you misread. They use a shallow tree in their scout js file; all of the resources a page will need are declared there Being shallow doesn't fix the problem when resources are split up at all and that's what the article (correctly) suggests to benefit from HTTP/2 features. As we move away from a single bundle.js file we need to think more about how to manage splits. E.g. The article talks about splitting into `application` and `vendor` hashes, and you mention grouping by churn or functionality. So presumably we agree that being able to split files without significant speed loss is a major feature of HTTP/2. All I'm suggesting is that the filename hashing strategies need to be improved to avoid application errors when splitting. If we don't improve filename hashing strategies then we'd still have to rely on small HTTP cache durations, or we'd get temporary errors while caches expire, which is a problem because the whole point of the article is to have extremely long cache durations. As they say, "Files loaded by the scout can have extremely long cache times because [...]" Then as the article says, "This can be solved by using hashes of the file contents rather than version numbers: vendor-d41d8cd98f.js. If a file has not changed, its hash will remain the same." This is bad advice because they don't talk about dependencies affecting hashes. Even if that file hasn't changed but it depends on another file then its hash needs to change too, or else application.js will will have different contents depending on when it was loaded. Eg. application.js has a requirejs import of vendor.js requirejs(["vendor.js"], function(vendor){ }); So if we generated a naive hash as suggested then application-45345345345.js might look like, requirejs(["vendor-3455345ABCDFFF.js"], function(vendor){ }); Then vendor.js changes but application.js doesn't, and so application-45345345345.js is updated to read, requirejs(["vendor-f2ab4cde6f55.js"], function(vendor){ }); And now you can see the problem that application.js didn't change but it's dependencies did, so application-45345345345.js will have different data depending on when you access it which is exactly what you don't want with long HTTP cache durations. This can cause mismatches in what version of a file is imported, and cause application errors. The only way to have permanent URLs with content that doesn't change (a prerequisite for long HTTP cache durations) is to include dependencies in the calculation of filename hashes. Or you could have an dynamic resolver (eg. based on a manifest file) but ES6 and SVG have static imports. More to the point though, if you can resolve it at build time why not? When they say "This can be solved by using hashes of the file contents" this is a fundamental mistake and it's simply bad advice.

deftnerd 11y ago

I've been trying to use SubResource Integrity on all my sites as well as Content-Security-Policy headers. This makes it so it's better to link to static assets rather than embed javascript or CSS within the page. Using HTTP2 has meant that there are no longer any performance downsides to multiple include directives. I'm pretty happy about that.

rmdoss 11y ago

He mentioned CDN's not supporting HTTP/2. I am pretty sure a few them do. Including https://keycdn.com https://keycdn.com, https://sucuri.net https://sucuri.net, Akamai and likely a few more.