4 ms·

Can anyone comment on if Valve is as flat as I have heard and what makes it work for them?

by mentos 11y ago

jblow 11y ago
You are presuming it actually works for Valve, which is not an uncontroversial notion.
- jacques_chester 11y ago
  It's controversial because we don't know if it would keep working without a massive free cashflow. (My guess is: it would not).
  - jblow 11y ago
    That is not even what I am talking about. I know a number of people who have quit Valve and almost all of them would cite organizational dysfunction as one of the top reasons for quitting. I don't know whether that is true -- I have never worked there -- and I don't wish to spread any ill rumors about Valve. I'm just saying that I know a bunch of people who have worked there who think the flat thing is one of Valve's biggest problems (another one being the incentive structure; of course these two things go hand in hand).
    - jacques_chester 11y ago
      Gotcha. I haven't worked there either; but I find the boosterism I sometimes observe to be annoying because of the confounding factor of massive free cashflow.
Macha 11y ago
So as far as I understand it, the flat structure applies to devs/designers etc. in Valve HQ. Their customer support/sales people are apparently much more traditional
InclinedPlane 11y ago
What I've heard is that Valve is a typical "flat" org. Wherein there is an elite/cabal of folks who need to be on board any project for it to actually get done. As a consequence, almost no major projects get done. When was the last time Valve shipped a game? Dota 2? That and incremental work on Steam has been most of what they've done for the last many years. Relevant: http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
- supjeff 11y ago
  Yeah, I was a fan when I'd first read the employee handbook, but then I thought about it and of course, it would just look like high school again. The cool kids set the course and nothing else is taken seriously.
supjeff 11y ago
Valve has multiple products, and each project has a team, and each team has a leader. Individual teams have structure and autonomy. The success of their projects is measurable and attributable to the team and its leadership. The startups that try to be flat and fail usually have one product with lots of projects and no real leadership. Everyone and no one is responsible for everything and nothing.

Can anyone comment on if Valve is as flat as I have heard and what makes it work for them?

by mentos 11y ago

Can anyone comment on if Valve is as flat as I have heard and what makes it work for them?

jblow 11y ago

You are presuming it actually works for Valve, which is not an uncontroversial notion.

jacques_chester 11y ago
It's controversial because we don't know if it would keep working without a massive free cashflow. (My guess is: it would not).
- jblow 11y ago
  That is not even what I am talking about. I know a number of people who have quit Valve and almost all of them would cite organizational dysfunction as one of the top reasons for quitting. I don't know whether that is true -- I have never worked there -- and I don't wish to spread any ill rumors about Valve. I'm just saying that I know a bunch of people who have worked there who think the flat thing is one of Valve's biggest problems (another one being the incentive structure; of course these two things go hand in hand).
  - jacques_chester 11y ago
    Gotcha. I haven't worked there either; but I find the boosterism I sometimes observe to be annoying because of the confounding factor of massive free cashflow.

Macha 11y ago

So as far as I understand it, the flat structure applies to devs/designers etc. in Valve HQ. Their customer support/sales people are apparently much more traditional

InclinedPlane 11y ago

What I've heard is that Valve is a typical "flat" org. Wherein there is an elite/cabal of folks who need to be on board any project for it to actually get done. As a consequence, almost no major projects get done. When was the last time Valve shipped a game? Dota 2? That and incremental work on Steam has been most of what they've done for the last many years. Relevant: http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm

supjeff 11y ago
Yeah, I was a fan when I'd first read the employee handbook, but then I thought about it and of course, it would just look like high school again. The cool kids set the course and nothing else is taken seriously.

supjeff 11y ago

Valve has multiple products, and each project has a team, and each team has a leader. Individual teams have structure and autonomy. The success of their projects is measurable and attributable to the team and its leadership. The startups that try to be flat and fail usually have one product with lots of projects and no real leadership. Everyone and no one is responsible for everything and nothing.