5 ms·

Why you should start a company in… New York

30 points by bootload 17y ago

bootload 17y ago
"... So now we have the best of both worlds. We can back first-time entrepreneurs and have mentors and role models for them and we have those role models in their second, third, and fourth startups and that's the magic--that creates a sustainable startup economy that Silicon Valley has had for four decades now. We're three or four years into our second decade and I think it's going to be a great period for New York. ..." I read the article half way, looked at some of the phrases and guessed http://www.avc.com http://www.avc.com / Fred Wilson who's been pushing NY as a Startup alternative for a number of years now. Will this idea crumble when finance recovers?
- rw 17y ago
  The cultural variety and quality is awesome in New York. The Valley has a critical mass of technology, but NYC has a critical mass of life. </more-than-usual bias>
  - tptacek 17y ago
    And it's incredibly expensive. Let me put a word in for Chicago. 80% of the benefits of NYC, only 5% of the problems. For instance: no bedbugs. (We're headquartered in NYC and Chicago).
    - sachinag 17y ago
      You know who says NYC is awesome? People who already live there. Good luck finding a place to live in the city. Your options: room with four other people in a two bedroom or have insanely rich parents who can co-sign a lease with you. Of course, I disagree wholeheartedly with Thomas on Chicago unless you're bootstrapping. If you don't want to do SV, Boston and LA (especially now with Jason's Open Angel Forum events) are pretty good options.
      - aditya 17y ago
        This is only partially true. a 1br in SoMA is the same rent as a 1br in most of Manhattan, but you possibly get lesser space in Manhattan, so then you move out to brooklyn if you want more space. Also, DUMBO in Brooklyn is fairly easily accessible and is becoming quite a startup hub. NYC seems expensive, but if you look hard enough you can find good deals anywhere.
        warfangle 17y ago
        Very true. Don't be afraid to look outside of the manhattan/williamsburg/dumbo/long island city areas, either. Most people who think that NYC is incredibly expensive (I've even gotten this from folks who live in La Crescenta, CA) haven't bothered to explore beyond Manhattan.
      - wglb 17y ago
        There is a VC community in Chicago, but not nearly so extensive as SV.
      - fortes 17y ago
        The thing about NYC is that the high end (and much of Manhattan) is indeed incredibly expensive. And if you don't know NYC, you think that's all that's out there. But New York is huge and you can find a little bit of everything. Brooklyn alone is larger than most large cities, with 2.5 million people (over half the size of metro SF, and about the same as metro Pittsburgh). Everything gets much, much cheaper when you leave the ultra-density of Manhattan. It's like any other city center, just scaled way up.
        deleted 17y ago
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    - warfangle 17y ago
      Funky, the city of Chicago has a pretty large help page on what a bed bug is and how to deal with them. http://bit.ly/6ZwDrU http://bit.ly/6ZwDrU (evgov.cityofchicago.org) Brooklyn really isn't that expensive - you can get a decent enough railroad style apartment for around $1100. That's more than enough space for one person. You can dial it down to $6-700/mo if you're willing to move in with flatmates. I find that most of the expenses of NYC come with the nightlife. I actually live cheaper up here (rent + $400 or so for food + transport, monthly) than my brother does down in Durham, NC. Disclaimers: I don't go out much, and when I do it's typically on the cheap. I live in a pre-gentrification area of Brooklyn (Bushwick), but I've only felt unsafe once - and that was due to some stupid mistakes on my part. The hipsters are starting to trickle over from Williamsburg, but it's not annoying-roof-drink-n-drugs-college-party-ville yet. My landlord sucks (but don't they all?). And I've never (Disclaimer^2: I've only been here for 3.5 yrs) had issues with bedbugs.
- ardit33 17y ago
  I for one plan to open a startup in NYC. Why? B/c there are no girls in silicon valley. If you are in your 20s, or early 30s, you are probably wasting your best dating years away. I like to work hard/play hard and NYC seems the perfect place to do it. In SV, you work hard/get more bored. You are surrounded by boring suburbs. SF is fun for a while, but good luck finding dateable girls. (If you are into hipster chicks, it is perfect). Eventually work hard without corresponding fun becomes tedious, and people burn off, and move on. NYC seems to have a better balance. When people leave NYC, (or Manhattan), they seem to settle for the cheaper boroughs, or New Jersey / RI. When people leave SF/SV, they just move away. Fred Wilson should start emphasizing this more in his posts. He doesn't realize how bad the 'dating' situation is here, and just be in a city where you meet lots of well educated girls, is a huge perk for many single 20s-30something engineers. Ps. I have been talking with some friends also, that are in the same boat. Our plan is to actually have at least an office there. Seriously. I guess it is just like rock bands, where people join them "to get the chicks", so will be my next startup. "To get the chicks". Life is too short. :D
  - fjabre 17y ago
    Hilarious. I haven't lived in the Valley but I've heard this from some of my friends who do. I guess it does make a lot of sense after some thought.
  - larrykubin 17y ago
    If you're looking for dating, you should consider Austin. Plus you could save thousands of dollars a month in rent and pay no state income tax. I may have to write a post on this.
  - bootload 17y ago
    "... Why? B/c there are no girls in silicon valley. If you are in your 20s, or early 30s, you are probably wasting your best dating years away ..." But you could try the jzw approach ("our 'use case' should be, there's a 22 year old college student living in the dorms. How will this software get him laid?") and still stay in the valley ~ http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski
  - 17y ago
deleted 17y ago
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btilly 17y ago
Let's see. If I have a job in NYC and I work on my startup on the side, then when I try to leave my job once my startup is making progress I discover that my employer owns everything I did for my startup and I'm out in the cold. Do the same thing in California and state law makes the startup I've been working on in my time with my money, mine. To me this simple fact gives California a huge advantage in maintaining a startup culture.
- warfangle 17y ago
  Funny, I've been sure to add / ensure that there were clauses in my employment contracts that prevent this sort of thing from happening. In fact, I'm about to start a flex-time contract position that will allow me to work on toy/potentially-interesting projects on my own time, that I will own. In NYC. YMMV... (I guess my point is: do you have more than anecdotal evidence to back this up? I don't, but you don't seem to either - I'm not aware of anything in NYS law that requires all that you do while employed at a company, even when not done on employer dime/equipment/time/space, to be owned by said employer)
  - btilly 17y ago
    I have more than anecdotal evidence, but it isn't in an online form. Detailed discussions with a good lawyer about NY state law is that there are three classes of employee. Those are contractors, hourly, and professional. If you are not working by the project and don't have to track your time on a clock, then you are a professional employee. By default any work done by a professional employee which relates to that employee's job function belongs to the employer. (If a programmer writes a novel, the novel is probably his. But a program written is probably not his.) It is standard and customary for employers to add clauses to contracts reiterating that principle. This makes their case even stronger. And yes, I've been personally caught on the wrong side of this. And yes, I personally know other people in an unrelated incident whose startup folded in exactly this manner. OTOH if your contract has clauses protecting you then you are likely protected from this. However the common default is otherwise. By contrast in California state law work done on your own time with your own equipment which does not use your employer's intellectual property is never a work for hire. This right cannot be signed away. The result is that your startup on the side is always legally protected. And yes. This is among the reasons that I now live in California, and not NY.
yardie 17y ago
Definitely don't have a startup in Miami. All the sun, beach, and girls will rob you of your motivation to work. Who wants to spend 18 hours at office when you've got 12 hours of blazing sunlight. You'll blow all your money on liquor and clubs while staying in a decent sized apartment. You'll stroll into work around noonish after doing a yoga session... on the beach. And you'll meet all types of beautiful women who don't speak english. Definitely DO NOT GO TO MIAMI. /s

30 points by bootload 17y ago

"... So now we have the best of both worlds. We can back first-time entrepreneurs and have mentors and role models for them and we have those role models in their second, third, and fourth startups and that's the magic--that creates a sustainable startup economy that Silicon Valley has had for four decades now. We're three or four years into our second decade and I think it's going to be a great period for New York. ..." I read the article half way, looked at some of the phrases and guessed http://www.avc.com http://www.avc.com / Fred Wilson who's been pushing NY as a Startup alternative for a number of years now. Will this idea crumble when finance recovers?

rw 17y ago
The cultural variety and quality is awesome in New York. The Valley has a critical mass of technology, but NYC has a critical mass of life. </more-than-usual bias>
- tptacek 17y ago
  And it's incredibly expensive. Let me put a word in for Chicago. 80% of the benefits of NYC, only 5% of the problems. For instance: no bedbugs. (We're headquartered in NYC and Chicago).
  - sachinag 17y ago
    You know who says NYC is awesome? People who already live there. Good luck finding a place to live in the city. Your options: room with four other people in a two bedroom or have insanely rich parents who can co-sign a lease with you. Of course, I disagree wholeheartedly with Thomas on Chicago unless you're bootstrapping. If you don't want to do SV, Boston and LA (especially now with Jason's Open Angel Forum events) are pretty good options.
    - aditya 17y ago
      This is only partially true. a 1br in SoMA is the same rent as a 1br in most of Manhattan, but you possibly get lesser space in Manhattan, so then you move out to brooklyn if you want more space. Also, DUMBO in Brooklyn is fairly easily accessible and is becoming quite a startup hub. NYC seems expensive, but if you look hard enough you can find good deals anywhere.
      - warfangle 17y ago
        Very true. Don't be afraid to look outside of the manhattan/williamsburg/dumbo/long island city areas, either. Most people who think that NYC is incredibly expensive (I've even gotten this from folks who live in La Crescenta, CA) haven't bothered to explore beyond Manhattan.
    - wglb 17y ago
      There is a VC community in Chicago, but not nearly so extensive as SV.
    - fortes 17y ago
      The thing about NYC is that the high end (and much of Manhattan) is indeed incredibly expensive. And if you don't know NYC, you think that's all that's out there. But New York is huge and you can find a little bit of everything. Brooklyn alone is larger than most large cities, with 2.5 million people (over half the size of metro SF, and about the same as metro Pittsburgh). Everything gets much, much cheaper when you leave the ultra-density of Manhattan. It's like any other city center, just scaled way up.
      - deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
  - warfangle 17y ago
    Funky, the city of Chicago has a pretty large help page on what a bed bug is and how to deal with them. http://bit.ly/6ZwDrU http://bit.ly/6ZwDrU (evgov.cityofchicago.org) Brooklyn really isn't that expensive - you can get a decent enough railroad style apartment for around $1100. That's more than enough space for one person. You can dial it down to $6-700/mo if you're willing to move in with flatmates. I find that most of the expenses of NYC come with the nightlife. I actually live cheaper up here (rent + $400 or so for food + transport, monthly) than my brother does down in Durham, NC. Disclaimers: I don't go out much, and when I do it's typically on the cheap. I live in a pre-gentrification area of Brooklyn (Bushwick), but I've only felt unsafe once - and that was due to some stupid mistakes on my part. The hipsters are starting to trickle over from Williamsburg, but it's not annoying-roof-drink-n-drugs-college-party-ville yet. My landlord sucks (but don't they all?). And I've never (Disclaimer^2: I've only been here for 3.5 yrs) had issues with bedbugs.
ardit33 17y ago
I for one plan to open a startup in NYC. Why? B/c there are no girls in silicon valley. If you are in your 20s, or early 30s, you are probably wasting your best dating years away. I like to work hard/play hard and NYC seems the perfect place to do it. In SV, you work hard/get more bored. You are surrounded by boring suburbs. SF is fun for a while, but good luck finding dateable girls. (If you are into hipster chicks, it is perfect). Eventually work hard without corresponding fun becomes tedious, and people burn off, and move on. NYC seems to have a better balance. When people leave NYC, (or Manhattan), they seem to settle for the cheaper boroughs, or New Jersey / RI. When people leave SF/SV, they just move away. Fred Wilson should start emphasizing this more in his posts. He doesn't realize how bad the 'dating' situation is here, and just be in a city where you meet lots of well educated girls, is a huge perk for many single 20s-30something engineers. Ps. I have been talking with some friends also, that are in the same boat. Our plan is to actually have at least an office there. Seriously. I guess it is just like rock bands, where people join them "to get the chicks", so will be my next startup. "To get the chicks". Life is too short. :D
- fjabre 17y ago
  Hilarious. I haven't lived in the Valley but I've heard this from some of my friends who do. I guess it does make a lot of sense after some thought.
- larrykubin 17y ago
  If you're looking for dating, you should consider Austin. Plus you could save thousands of dollars a month in rent and pay no state income tax. I may have to write a post on this.
- bootload 17y ago
  "... Why? B/c there are no girls in silicon valley. If you are in your 20s, or early 30s, you are probably wasting your best dating years away ..." But you could try the jzw approach ("our 'use case' should be, there's a 22 year old college student living in the dorms. How will this software get him laid?") and still stay in the valley ~ http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski
- 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

btilly 17y ago

Let's see. If I have a job in NYC and I work on my startup on the side, then when I try to leave my job once my startup is making progress I discover that my employer owns everything I did for my startup and I'm out in the cold. Do the same thing in California and state law makes the startup I've been working on in my time with my money, mine. To me this simple fact gives California a huge advantage in maintaining a startup culture.

warfangle 17y ago
Funny, I've been sure to add / ensure that there were clauses in my employment contracts that prevent this sort of thing from happening. In fact, I'm about to start a flex-time contract position that will allow me to work on toy/potentially-interesting projects on my own time, that I will own. In NYC. YMMV... (I guess my point is: do you have more than anecdotal evidence to back this up? I don't, but you don't seem to either - I'm not aware of anything in NYS law that requires all that you do while employed at a company, even when not done on employer dime/equipment/time/space, to be owned by said employer)
- btilly 17y ago
  I have more than anecdotal evidence, but it isn't in an online form. Detailed discussions with a good lawyer about NY state law is that there are three classes of employee. Those are contractors, hourly, and professional. If you are not working by the project and don't have to track your time on a clock, then you are a professional employee. By default any work done by a professional employee which relates to that employee's job function belongs to the employer. (If a programmer writes a novel, the novel is probably his. But a program written is probably not his.) It is standard and customary for employers to add clauses to contracts reiterating that principle. This makes their case even stronger. And yes, I've been personally caught on the wrong side of this. And yes, I personally know other people in an unrelated incident whose startup folded in exactly this manner. OTOH if your contract has clauses protecting you then you are likely protected from this. However the common default is otherwise. By contrast in California state law work done on your own time with your own equipment which does not use your employer's intellectual property is never a work for hire. This right cannot be signed away. The result is that your startup on the side is always legally protected. And yes. This is among the reasons that I now live in California, and not NY.

yardie 17y ago

Definitely don't have a startup in Miami. All the sun, beach, and girls will rob you of your motivation to work. Who wants to spend 18 hours at office when you've got 12 hours of blazing sunlight. You'll blow all your money on liquor and clubs while staying in a decent sized apartment. You'll stroll into work around noonish after doing a yoga session... on the beach. And you'll meet all types of beautiful women who don't speak english. Definitely DO NOT GO TO MIAMI. /s