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Don't forget Rojava (YPG), the most successful fighters against ISIS. Right at Turkey's border — and as Putin made it impossible to ignore, Erdogan supports ISI

Don't forget Rojava (YPG), the most successful fighters against ISIS. Right at Turkey's border — and as Putin made it impossible to ignore, Erdogan supports ISIS. (Apparently Erdogan has dreams of being Caliph.) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/a-dream-of-utopia-in-hell.html?_r=1 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/a-dream-of-utopia... In my view, their society has ethically surpassed anything in "the West". Obama's in the absurd position of supporting Erdogan against them, despite YPG being the US's most effective ally against ISIS. ("Contradictions of empire", it's maybe called.)

afsina 11y ago
> Erdogan supports ISIS. (Apparently Erdogan has dreams of being Caliph.) Please, do not succumb to this kind of statements. Erdoğan does not support ISIS, but he does not support YPG or PKK either. So when he did not take active action why is he portrayed as ISIS supporter? Did not Turkey do enough to host and feed people from Kobane and treated the wounded Kursdish fighhters? Turkey simply did not want to enter the mess deeper (But we are already in anyway..) He knows that he cannot be a Caliph or such, maybe he had the melancholy of the Ottoman times, but that's past already.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  Erdogan also did its best to prevent the supply corridor for Kurds from Iraq to Kobane.
  - afsina 11y ago
    First, Irak and Syria are neighbors you know that right? And Turkey did allow Iraqi Kurds to enter from Turkish border, but not the PKK.
- cygx 11y ago
  Please, do not succumb to this kind of statements. Erdoğan does not support ISIS But he at the very least used to collaborate. ISIS is Sunni, they fight Assad, Iran and the Kurds and needed someone to take their oil off their hands. That whole terrorist thing and delusions of world domination aside, from Erdoğan's perspective what's not to like?
  - afsina 11y ago
    Is there anybody ISIS does not fight? Turkey lost 130 people with suicide bombings in last 6 months. What were you expecting? Entering Syria with tanks? It is easy to talk from an armchair when you are far away from the fire.
    - cygx 11y ago
      I'm not merely talking out of my ass here - it's an open secret that Turkey has been complicit: http://www.dw.com/en/is-supply-channels-through-turkey/av-18091048 http://www.dw.com/en/is-supply-channels-through-turkey/av-18... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/isis-syria-turkey-us http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/isis-syria-turk...
      - afsina 11y ago
        "Every day, trucks laden with food, clothing, and other supplies cross the border from Turkey to Syria. It is unclear who is picking up the goods." It is a well known fact that Turkey aided Syrian opposition and people live under attack. Perhaps IS might have seized some goods. It is hard to dispatch anything when there is a war. But this news piece starts with a silly assumption. Completely loses the value. For the second: " From mid-2013, the Tunisian fighter had been responsible for smuggling oil from Syria’s eastern fields, which the group had by then commandeered. Black market oil quickly became the main driver of Isis revenues – and Turkish buyers were its main clients." Smuggling. So Turkish government is perpetrator because there are oil smugglers? Please. IS sells oil to black market and smugglers (probably even Syrian Government) takes it. How is Turkish government is a supporter of IS here? Smuggling is a decades old problem in south east Turkey (Mostly Kurdish area). They tried to prevent it with special high tech chemical marker dyes and strict controls but you cannot stop it. Also keep in mind that Guardian always use anti government sources for Turkish news. (Mostly left leaning, pro-kurdish or Gulenist.).
        cygx 11y ago
        Remember Joe Biden talking about Turkey shipping weapons into Syria that ended up in the hands of Jihadis?[1] They actually have been caught red-handed[2], and allegedly it's still ongoing[3]. I do not believe all accusations are merely propaganda by the West, Russia, the Kurds or his internal political enemies. Sure, that does happen, and I would eg take the accusations of Bilal Erdoğan's involvement in the smuggling of ISIS oil with a grain of salt. But supplying the enemy of your enemies with weapons and politicians trying to make deals with the devil? That's old news. [1] http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/05/politics/isis-biden-erdogan-apology/ http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/05/politics/isis-biden-erdoga... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Organisation_scandal_in_Turkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Org... [3] http://www.todayszaman.com/_raid-on-koza-i-pek-media-group-comes-after-reports-on-transfer-of-weapons-to-isil_397966.html http://www.todayszaman.com/_raid-on-koza-i-pek-media-group-c...
- nkoren 11y ago
  Turkey has bombed the YPG explicitly because they were advancing too successfully upon ISIS, pushing west of the Euphrates. This, in effect, has created a protected zone for ISIS to operate. This makes him unambiguously an ISIS supporter.
  - afsina 11y ago
    YPG has a different agenda and everybody knows this. And albeit costly, ISIS actually gave them an opportunity. They just want to close the northern border of Syria for their liking. Just do not assume they are peaceful (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/syria-turkey-right-groups-accused-kurds-rojava-of-war-crimes.html http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/syria-turk...) Turkey wants a protected zone to repel ISIS from Turkish border and YPG closing the north line. That's about it. YPG has plenty of open space to fight ISIS if they want to. Do not overestimate YPG. Without US support, they probably would have lost the game long ago.

afsina 11y ago

> Erdogan supports ISIS. (Apparently Erdogan has dreams of being Caliph.) Please, do not succumb to this kind of statements. Erdoğan does not support ISIS, but he does not support YPG or PKK either. So when he did not take active action why is he portrayed as ISIS supporter? Did not Turkey do enough to host and feed people from Kobane and treated the wounded Kursdish fighhters? Turkey simply did not want to enter the mess deeper (But we are already in anyway..) He knows that he cannot be a Caliph or such, maybe he had the melancholy of the Ottoman times, but that's past already.

venomsnake 11y ago
Erdogan also did its best to prevent the supply corridor for Kurds from Iraq to Kobane.
- afsina 11y ago
  First, Irak and Syria are neighbors you know that right? And Turkey did allow Iraqi Kurds to enter from Turkish border, but not the PKK.
cygx 11y ago
Please, do not succumb to this kind of statements. Erdoğan does not support ISIS But he at the very least used to collaborate. ISIS is Sunni, they fight Assad, Iran and the Kurds and needed someone to take their oil off their hands. That whole terrorist thing and delusions of world domination aside, from Erdoğan's perspective what's not to like?
- afsina 11y ago
  Is there anybody ISIS does not fight? Turkey lost 130 people with suicide bombings in last 6 months. What were you expecting? Entering Syria with tanks? It is easy to talk from an armchair when you are far away from the fire.
  - cygx 11y ago
    I'm not merely talking out of my ass here - it's an open secret that Turkey has been complicit: http://www.dw.com/en/is-supply-channels-through-turkey/av-18091048 http://www.dw.com/en/is-supply-channels-through-turkey/av-18... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/isis-syria-turkey-us http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/isis-syria-turk...
    - afsina 11y ago
      "Every day, trucks laden with food, clothing, and other supplies cross the border from Turkey to Syria. It is unclear who is picking up the goods." It is a well known fact that Turkey aided Syrian opposition and people live under attack. Perhaps IS might have seized some goods. It is hard to dispatch anything when there is a war. But this news piece starts with a silly assumption. Completely loses the value. For the second: " From mid-2013, the Tunisian fighter had been responsible for smuggling oil from Syria’s eastern fields, which the group had by then commandeered. Black market oil quickly became the main driver of Isis revenues – and Turkish buyers were its main clients." Smuggling. So Turkish government is perpetrator because there are oil smugglers? Please. IS sells oil to black market and smugglers (probably even Syrian Government) takes it. How is Turkish government is a supporter of IS here? Smuggling is a decades old problem in south east Turkey (Mostly Kurdish area). They tried to prevent it with special high tech chemical marker dyes and strict controls but you cannot stop it. Also keep in mind that Guardian always use anti government sources for Turkish news. (Mostly left leaning, pro-kurdish or Gulenist.).
      - cygx 11y ago
        Remember Joe Biden talking about Turkey shipping weapons into Syria that ended up in the hands of Jihadis?[1] They actually have been caught red-handed[2], and allegedly it's still ongoing[3]. I do not believe all accusations are merely propaganda by the West, Russia, the Kurds or his internal political enemies. Sure, that does happen, and I would eg take the accusations of Bilal Erdoğan's involvement in the smuggling of ISIS oil with a grain of salt. But supplying the enemy of your enemies with weapons and politicians trying to make deals with the devil? That's old news. [1] http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/05/politics/isis-biden-erdogan-apology/ http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/05/politics/isis-biden-erdoga... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Organisation_scandal_in_Turkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Org... [3] http://www.todayszaman.com/_raid-on-koza-i-pek-media-group-comes-after-reports-on-transfer-of-weapons-to-isil_397966.html http://www.todayszaman.com/_raid-on-koza-i-pek-media-group-c...
nkoren 11y ago
Turkey has bombed the YPG explicitly because they were advancing too successfully upon ISIS, pushing west of the Euphrates. This, in effect, has created a protected zone for ISIS to operate. This makes him unambiguously an ISIS supporter.
- afsina 11y ago
  YPG has a different agenda and everybody knows this. And albeit costly, ISIS actually gave them an opportunity. They just want to close the northern border of Syria for their liking. Just do not assume they are peaceful (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/syria-turkey-right-groups-accused-kurds-rojava-of-war-crimes.html http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/syria-turk...) Turkey wants a protected zone to repel ISIS from Turkish border and YPG closing the north line. That's about it. YPG has plenty of open space to fight ISIS if they want to. Do not overestimate YPG. Without US support, they probably would have lost the game long ago.