6 ms·

Japanese Company Makes Low-Calorie Noodles Out of Wood

47 points by trextrex 11y ago

dasboth 11y ago
I may be missing something here, but isn't the fact that it's made of tree pulp going to hurt the environment?
- masklinn 11y ago
  Probably not more so than all the existing tree farms, the scale of this would be much lower than the tons of engineered wood we're already using.
- glenra 11y ago
  How would it hurt? We get wood pulp from trees that are farmed, not by clearcutting old-growth rainforest. If we used less tree pulp, the obvious result would be that we'd plant fewer acres of forest. If anything, finding more uses for wood helps the environment as it's using a resource that literally grows on trees in lieu of other resource that don't.
khabaal 11y ago
My first thought on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfM7dvFto0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfM7dvFto0
- jtheory 11y ago
  Ideally share the thought here in some way; don't just give a mystery link.
- jacobush 11y ago
  When Bart Simpson discovers he drinks Malk instead of Milk, to the detriment of bone density.
Drakim 11y ago
I remember there was a controversy when it came to the public's attention that there was cellulose (wood) in many popular brands of bread. Personally I see nothing wrong with it, in fact, it seems like a pretty clever "food hack". We have sugar substitutes, so why not this?
- rplnt 11y ago
  I remember controversy about recycling cardboard into noodles. I might see something wrong about that. Not sure if it was hoax or not though. edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cardboard_bun_hoax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cardboard_bun_hoax
  - BuildTheRobots 11y ago
    iirc, they were also adding melamine to dog and baby food because it looks just like real protean when lab tested.
- creshal 11y ago
  I guess the problem is association with war-time practices of cutting flour with sawdust and other measures to "cheat" on consumers – and generally the feeling of getting cheated. Sugar substitutes are demanded by the public (and usually advertised if present), while this is just yet another additive nobody knew about.
- awakeasleep 11y ago
  The issue is that there are plenty of people who rely on the food energy contained in those carbs. This was an enormous problem during the American industrial revolution, where already food-insecure families were buying products covertly made from "Potato flour", the insoluble fiber left once all nutrition was dissolved from potatoes. "Potato flour" was added to everything from sausage to bread as a filler and substitue for more expensive ingredients. This resulted in the poor watching their children and families starve despite seeming to eat regular full meals. In a perfect world, there would be a net benefit from the choice to eat a non-nutritive carb substitute if that choice was made clear by strict labeling standards. However, in our imperfect world, infrastructure that can produce food based on non-nutritive fiber has historically been used to rip off the most needy. In a world with actual fake egg and "gutter oil" problems, creating industrial processes to shape cellulose into something that looks like food is going to have severe negative effects for a lot of people.
duaneb 11y ago
Kind of sad this aims for low calorie (instead of low $/calorie), but still very cool.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- masklinn 11y ago
  > Kind of sad this aims for low calorie That's not exactly new, there's a ton of low-calorie stuff out there. > instead of low $/calorie Obesity epidemics are caused by the over-availability and over-consumption of low $/calorie.
  - duaneb 11y ago
    It just strikes me as incredibly unhealthy as a society to make food that is designed to make money and... not actually feed people. So sue me for having an opinion.
    - masklinn 11y ago
      > It just strikes me as incredibly unhealthy as a society to make food that is designed to make money and... not actually feed people. Ok but why? Many in the western world literally suffer from an over-intake of calories, why do ways to try and manage that (or ways to attain caloric deficit) strike you as "unhealthy"? Do you also find calorie/weight management courses "incredibly unhealthy"? > So sue me for having an opinion. That's an incredibly aggressive reply to what's at best questions and at worst a difference of opinion.
      - duaneb 11y ago
        > Ok but why? Many in the western world literally suffer from an over-intake of calories, why do ways to try and manage that strike you as "unhealthy"? Do you also find calorie/weight management courses "incredibly unhealthy"? I don't think this is going to help anyone lose weight any more than a therapist, salads, lentils, etc. etc. I see this as a cool food engineering experiment, but ultimately a waste of money. > That's an incredibly aggressive reply to what's at best questions and at worst a difference of opinion. I found your terse response ignoring the subjective content to be quite aggressive in itself, especially considering the conciliatory tone of my original message. If you're going to respond to an opinion, at least put some effort into not being so argumentative.
MrJagil 11y ago
A common ingredient in baked goods is an amino acid derived from human hair: http://www.naturalnews.com/032718_L-cysteine_commercial_bread.html http://www.naturalnews.com/032718_L-cysteine_commercial_brea... Edit: Here's the wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine#Industrial_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine#Industrial_sources
- riffraff 11y ago
  > As of 2012, the European Union requires that all L-cysteine be produced from sources other than human hair. Still interesting, but probably outdated.
btrask 11y ago
This is the total opposite of those futuristic meal pills, isn't it?
masklinn 11y ago
> There are already noodles made just from konjac, also known as Devil’s Tongue or Voodoo Lily because of the plant’s striking flower. But it has been difficult to sell because of its bitter taste, according to Keiichi Ohi Having tried konnyaku (skewered blocks though, not noodles), my issue was not so much taste (which is pretty much non-existent, all the flavor came from the sauce) as texture, superficially very slimy jelly with surprisingly firm internal consistency, it was somewhat gag-inducing. I'd be interested in learning how the texture changes by introducing cellulose mix into konnyaku.
- cstross 11y ago
  My wife is vegan (and a Japanophile) and uses konnyaku as a meat substitute -- the issue is flavouring, and with various seafood flavours (often seaweed-derived) it makes an excellent fish/shellfish substitute. One thing to note is that it requires boiling before further cooking to get rid of the initial rather off-putting aroma. I've lately begun seeing it show up as the base of various "gluten-free diet wonder-food" products in our local wholefood supermarket (in the UK), at about five times the price it is in your typical Chinese/Asian foods supermarket ...
kifki 11y ago
I don't see the news here. Shirataki is quite popular and quite easily found. I think it became popular with the Dukan diet.
- masklinn 11y ago
  Shirataki are pure konjac, the article talks about adding wood fibers to konjac to improve the texture and taste.
  - kifki 11y ago
    Thank you, I didn't know that. Do you think that there are key differences between the two?
    - masklinn 11y ago
      Nothing more than what's in the article, namely that the mix is supposed to mix taste and texture, which could help selling shirataki and more generally konjac products.
weavie 11y ago
From what I can gather this will have virtually no nutritional content whatsoever. I really do struggle to see how it could be considered a "health" food. Although food like kale does have 10x the amount of calories, I have a sneaky suspicion you would be much better off eating that. The problem (in my view) that is the cause of obesity is the tendency to eat foods that are more processed rather than less..
- seren 11y ago
  I had the same initial reaction, then checked it has about the same caloric intake than vegetable soup. So it can probably give you some sense of (short-term) satiety but it would be hard to base your diet on it.
- masklinn 11y ago
  > From what I can gather this will have virtually no nutritional content whatsoever. I really do struggle to see how it could be considered a "health" food. When the alternative is more energy-dense food and you've already more than filled your caloric budget, it's healthier to eat this. Plus konjac and wood pulp are high in dietary fiber.
- Kiro 11y ago
  It's great when cutting. After a long period of bulking it's very easy to get ripped with miracle noodles. You fill your stomach without getting the excess energy in order to stay on a calorie deficit.
jbb555 11y ago
I eat konjac noodles quite often as a lower carb alternative. They are not as nice as "real" noodles but alright to have sometimes, specially if they are served with highly flavoured food. They are not perfect though, so I'm happy to see this if it improves the taste texture a bit.
AndrewDucker 11y ago
Reminds me of this quote from Good Omens, where Famine now spends his time coming up with new foods (“indistinguishable from any other [food] except for […] the nutritional content, which was roughly equivalent to that of a Sony Walkman. It didn’t matter how much you ate, you lost weight. […] And hair. And skin tone. And, if you ate enough of it long enough, vital signs”).
- iMark 11y ago
  And yet, even with those caveats, I'm sure such a product would find a market in modern times. cf Soylent.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    Isn't the goal of soylent the inverse, closer to the "meal in a pill" of mid-century science fiction?
  - AndrewDucker 11y ago
    As someone with blood sugar issues, if the labs could whip up amazing cakes that didn't threaten my health then I'd be ecstatic.
ucaetano 11y ago
It's interesting to compare this with Soylent: while Soylent provides nutrition without the pleasure of eating, this provides the pleasure of eating without risking overnutrition (in other words, getting fat). I wonder why aren't there VC firms dumping huge amounts of funding in stuff like this (or maybe I'm just not aware of)? On a separate note, why would someone eat Soylent? Oily farty flavorless sand milkshake? I wouldn't eat it even if it was free! Now this wooden noodles stuff? Sign me up!
- outside1234 11y ago
  I used Soylent on a super long backpacking trip where space and weight were huge considerations. It tasted awful but was incredibly effective from a dietary perspective.
  - dagw 11y ago
    Is Soylent really that much more space and weight efficient than existing[0] dehydrated meals? These dehydrated meals have the added advantage of not only tasting fairly decent (especially if you also bring a small selection of spices and dry herbs), but also lets you eat something different every day. [0] http://drytech.no/?lang=en http://drytech.no/?lang=en is my personal favorite, but there are dozens of others.
  - ucaetano 11y ago
    I agree with the practical uses of it: emergency rations, etc. But why would anyone voluntarily unnecessarily eat it is beyond my comprehension. But then, some people might not enjoy eating as much as I do :)
    - dasboth 11y ago
      The positive stories I've heard about Soylent revolve around convenience. Even for someone who loves to eat, Soylent can be practical for 50-70% of your meals which makes you enjoy the other 30-50% more. I assume Soylent is also cost-effective, but I have no idea. I tried DIY Soylent (as the 'real' stuff wasn't available in Europe) but after one batch of disgusting sawdust I gave up. It was a shame as I could see the benefits.
dao- 11y ago
Capitalism fun story: In order to counter skyrocketing calorie levels and the lack of fiber in ordinary cheaply produced food, and following hysterical trends like being afraid of fats or carbs or gluten, companies are busy inventing new food that doesn't have any nutritional value. Although this is basically just garbage manufactured into pseudo-food, with some clever marketing it's bound to be a hit on the market, and people who have no clue what they're doing will probably ruin their health in new interesting ways. At the same time, billions of people in the global lower class don't have access to even barely decent food. If this sounds insane to you, that's because it is in fact completely insane.
- gruez 11y ago
  >people who have no clue what they're doing will probably ruin their health in new interesting ways. What makes you think that?
  - dao- 11y ago
    Because it has happened before, e.g. http://www.today.com/health/breaking-vegan-author-jordan-younger-confesses-dirty-secrets-clean-eating-t55086 http://www.today.com/health/breaking-vegan-author-jordan-you... People jump into new lifestyle trends as if it were their new religion, failing to balance their diet reasonably.

47 points by trextrex 11y ago

dasboth 11y ago

I may be missing something here, but isn't the fact that it's made of tree pulp going to hurt the environment?

masklinn 11y ago
Probably not more so than all the existing tree farms, the scale of this would be much lower than the tons of engineered wood we're already using.
glenra 11y ago
How would it hurt? We get wood pulp from trees that are farmed, not by clearcutting old-growth rainforest. If we used less tree pulp, the obvious result would be that we'd plant fewer acres of forest. If anything, finding more uses for wood helps the environment as it's using a resource that literally grows on trees in lieu of other resource that don't.

khabaal 11y ago

My first thought on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfM7dvFto0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfM7dvFto0

jtheory 11y ago
Ideally share the thought here in some way; don't just give a mystery link.
jacobush 11y ago
When Bart Simpson discovers he drinks Malk instead of Milk, to the detriment of bone density.

Drakim 11y ago

I remember there was a controversy when it came to the public's attention that there was cellulose (wood) in many popular brands of bread. Personally I see nothing wrong with it, in fact, it seems like a pretty clever "food hack". We have sugar substitutes, so why not this?

rplnt 11y ago
I remember controversy about recycling cardboard into noodles. I might see something wrong about that. Not sure if it was hoax or not though. edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cardboard_bun_hoax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cardboard_bun_hoax
- BuildTheRobots 11y ago
  iirc, they were also adding melamine to dog and baby food because it looks just like real protean when lab tested.
creshal 11y ago
I guess the problem is association with war-time practices of cutting flour with sawdust and other measures to "cheat" on consumers – and generally the feeling of getting cheated. Sugar substitutes are demanded by the public (and usually advertised if present), while this is just yet another additive nobody knew about.
awakeasleep 11y ago
The issue is that there are plenty of people who rely on the food energy contained in those carbs. This was an enormous problem during the American industrial revolution, where already food-insecure families were buying products covertly made from "Potato flour", the insoluble fiber left once all nutrition was dissolved from potatoes. "Potato flour" was added to everything from sausage to bread as a filler and substitue for more expensive ingredients. This resulted in the poor watching their children and families starve despite seeming to eat regular full meals. In a perfect world, there would be a net benefit from the choice to eat a non-nutritive carb substitute if that choice was made clear by strict labeling standards. However, in our imperfect world, infrastructure that can produce food based on non-nutritive fiber has historically been used to rip off the most needy. In a world with actual fake egg and "gutter oil" problems, creating industrial processes to shape cellulose into something that looks like food is going to have severe negative effects for a lot of people.

duaneb 11y ago

Kind of sad this aims for low calorie (instead of low $/calorie), but still very cool.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
masklinn 11y ago
> Kind of sad this aims for low calorie That's not exactly new, there's a ton of low-calorie stuff out there. > instead of low $/calorie Obesity epidemics are caused by the over-availability and over-consumption of low $/calorie.
- duaneb 11y ago
  It just strikes me as incredibly unhealthy as a society to make food that is designed to make money and... not actually feed people. So sue me for having an opinion.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    > It just strikes me as incredibly unhealthy as a society to make food that is designed to make money and... not actually feed people. Ok but why? Many in the western world literally suffer from an over-intake of calories, why do ways to try and manage that (or ways to attain caloric deficit) strike you as "unhealthy"? Do you also find calorie/weight management courses "incredibly unhealthy"? > So sue me for having an opinion. That's an incredibly aggressive reply to what's at best questions and at worst a difference of opinion.
    - duaneb 11y ago
      > Ok but why? Many in the western world literally suffer from an over-intake of calories, why do ways to try and manage that strike you as "unhealthy"? Do you also find calorie/weight management courses "incredibly unhealthy"? I don't think this is going to help anyone lose weight any more than a therapist, salads, lentils, etc. etc. I see this as a cool food engineering experiment, but ultimately a waste of money. > That's an incredibly aggressive reply to what's at best questions and at worst a difference of opinion. I found your terse response ignoring the subjective content to be quite aggressive in itself, especially considering the conciliatory tone of my original message. If you're going to respond to an opinion, at least put some effort into not being so argumentative.

MrJagil 11y ago

A common ingredient in baked goods is an amino acid derived from human hair: http://www.naturalnews.com/032718_L-cysteine_commercial_bread.html http://www.naturalnews.com/032718_L-cysteine_commercial_brea... Edit: Here's the wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine#Industrial_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine#Industrial_sources

riffraff 11y ago
> As of 2012, the European Union requires that all L-cysteine be produced from sources other than human hair. Still interesting, but probably outdated.

btrask 11y ago

This is the total opposite of those futuristic meal pills, isn't it?

masklinn 11y ago

> There are already noodles made just from konjac, also known as Devil’s Tongue or Voodoo Lily because of the plant’s striking flower. But it has been difficult to sell because of its bitter taste, according to Keiichi Ohi Having tried konnyaku (skewered blocks though, not noodles), my issue was not so much taste (which is pretty much non-existent, all the flavor came from the sauce) as texture, superficially very slimy jelly with surprisingly firm internal consistency, it was somewhat gag-inducing. I'd be interested in learning how the texture changes by introducing cellulose mix into konnyaku.

cstross 11y ago
My wife is vegan (and a Japanophile) and uses konnyaku as a meat substitute -- the issue is flavouring, and with various seafood flavours (often seaweed-derived) it makes an excellent fish/shellfish substitute. One thing to note is that it requires boiling before further cooking to get rid of the initial rather off-putting aroma. I've lately begun seeing it show up as the base of various "gluten-free diet wonder-food" products in our local wholefood supermarket (in the UK), at about five times the price it is in your typical Chinese/Asian foods supermarket ...

kifki 11y ago

I don't see the news here. Shirataki is quite popular and quite easily found. I think it became popular with the Dukan diet.

masklinn 11y ago
Shirataki are pure konjac, the article talks about adding wood fibers to konjac to improve the texture and taste.
- kifki 11y ago
  Thank you, I didn't know that. Do you think that there are key differences between the two?
  - masklinn 11y ago
    Nothing more than what's in the article, namely that the mix is supposed to mix taste and texture, which could help selling shirataki and more generally konjac products.

weavie 11y ago

From what I can gather this will have virtually no nutritional content whatsoever. I really do struggle to see how it could be considered a "health" food. Although food like kale does have 10x the amount of calories, I have a sneaky suspicion you would be much better off eating that. The problem (in my view) that is the cause of obesity is the tendency to eat foods that are more processed rather than less..

seren 11y ago
I had the same initial reaction, then checked it has about the same caloric intake than vegetable soup. So it can probably give you some sense of (short-term) satiety but it would be hard to base your diet on it.
masklinn 11y ago
> From what I can gather this will have virtually no nutritional content whatsoever. I really do struggle to see how it could be considered a "health" food. When the alternative is more energy-dense food and you've already more than filled your caloric budget, it's healthier to eat this. Plus konjac and wood pulp are high in dietary fiber.
Kiro 11y ago
It's great when cutting. After a long period of bulking it's very easy to get ripped with miracle noodles. You fill your stomach without getting the excess energy in order to stay on a calorie deficit.

jbb555 11y ago

I eat konjac noodles quite often as a lower carb alternative. They are not as nice as "real" noodles but alright to have sometimes, specially if they are served with highly flavoured food. They are not perfect though, so I'm happy to see this if it improves the taste texture a bit.

AndrewDucker 11y ago

Reminds me of this quote from Good Omens, where Famine now spends his time coming up with new foods (“indistinguishable from any other [food] except for […] the nutritional content, which was roughly equivalent to that of a Sony Walkman. It didn’t matter how much you ate, you lost weight. […] And hair. And skin tone. And, if you ate enough of it long enough, vital signs”).

iMark 11y ago
And yet, even with those caveats, I'm sure such a product would find a market in modern times. cf Soylent.
- masklinn 11y ago
  Isn't the goal of soylent the inverse, closer to the "meal in a pill" of mid-century science fiction?
- AndrewDucker 11y ago
  As someone with blood sugar issues, if the labs could whip up amazing cakes that didn't threaten my health then I'd be ecstatic.

ucaetano 11y ago

It's interesting to compare this with Soylent: while Soylent provides nutrition without the pleasure of eating, this provides the pleasure of eating without risking overnutrition (in other words, getting fat). I wonder why aren't there VC firms dumping huge amounts of funding in stuff like this (or maybe I'm just not aware of)? On a separate note, why would someone eat Soylent? Oily farty flavorless sand milkshake? I wouldn't eat it even if it was free! Now this wooden noodles stuff? Sign me up!

outside1234 11y ago
I used Soylent on a super long backpacking trip where space and weight were huge considerations. It tasted awful but was incredibly effective from a dietary perspective.
- dagw 11y ago
  Is Soylent really that much more space and weight efficient than existing[0] dehydrated meals? These dehydrated meals have the added advantage of not only tasting fairly decent (especially if you also bring a small selection of spices and dry herbs), but also lets you eat something different every day. [0] http://drytech.no/?lang=en http://drytech.no/?lang=en is my personal favorite, but there are dozens of others.
- ucaetano 11y ago
  I agree with the practical uses of it: emergency rations, etc. But why would anyone voluntarily unnecessarily eat it is beyond my comprehension. But then, some people might not enjoy eating as much as I do :)
  - dasboth 11y ago
    The positive stories I've heard about Soylent revolve around convenience. Even for someone who loves to eat, Soylent can be practical for 50-70% of your meals which makes you enjoy the other 30-50% more. I assume Soylent is also cost-effective, but I have no idea. I tried DIY Soylent (as the 'real' stuff wasn't available in Europe) but after one batch of disgusting sawdust I gave up. It was a shame as I could see the benefits.

dao- 11y ago

Capitalism fun story: In order to counter skyrocketing calorie levels and the lack of fiber in ordinary cheaply produced food, and following hysterical trends like being afraid of fats or carbs or gluten, companies are busy inventing new food that doesn't have any nutritional value. Although this is basically just garbage manufactured into pseudo-food, with some clever marketing it's bound to be a hit on the market, and people who have no clue what they're doing will probably ruin their health in new interesting ways. At the same time, billions of people in the global lower class don't have access to even barely decent food. If this sounds insane to you, that's because it is in fact completely insane.

gruez 11y ago
>people who have no clue what they're doing will probably ruin their health in new interesting ways. What makes you think that?
- dao- 11y ago
  Because it has happened before, e.g. http://www.today.com/health/breaking-vegan-author-jordan-younger-confesses-dirty-secrets-clean-eating-t55086 http://www.today.com/health/breaking-vegan-author-jordan-you... People jump into new lifestyle trends as if it were their new religion, failing to balance their diet reasonably.