4 ms·

To me the most significant event is that of a magazine giving a way a computer. For me something like NVidia Jetson is a far more significant (and useful) deve

To me the most significant event is that of a magazine giving a way a computer. For me something like NVidia Jetson is a far more significant (and useful) development than the ever-shrinking bubblegum stick computers that simply aren't that useful. Yes, it costs 100x more but there's no comparison when it comes to what you can do with one. And, if that's too much, how about something like this for $39 (includes CPU): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157594 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157... or this for $59 (includes CPU): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138417 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138... of this one for $99 with a quad-core 2.4 GHz Intel CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157626 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157... No doubt that a $5 stick computer has huge value for educational purposes and in some parts of the world it's going to make a HUGE difference. Bravo for that. Yet, we still need a keyboard, mouse (maybe) and a screen. Because the Pi Zero has an HDMI output the cheapest monitor you can buy is likely to be in the $80 to $100 range: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112027 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112... In other words, this is great in that now the cost of the computer has become a rounding error in the total cost of everything you need to actually make it useful. In other parts of the world if you are going to be in computing the difference between spending $5 and spending $100 is zero. If you have an iPhone in your pocket (very likely) you or your parents can certainly afford to spend $200 on a computer. Every single kid in the FRC robotics team I mentor has a smart phone and a laptop. If they want to hack on some hardware it'd be no problem for their parents to buy them a $200~$300 setup. You can buy a whole new mini laptop for that kind of money. Same token, every single kid in the FLL team I mentor owns one or more Lego Mindstorms kit at $350 a piece. Maybe what I am saying is this: What I would see as having more impact in education (again, the economic in other part of the world are different) isn't necessarily a cheaper computer. A race to the bottom with a crippled $1 computer isn't what is keeping the kids I interact with from having access to technology and computing. No, what's keeping them from entering is a lack of motivation due to a decidedly uninteresting process. When I was a kid I had to work hard to have a computer. I had to build it out of chips. Wire-wrap it. Bootstrap it with assembler. Write my own Forth. Write my own text editor. Learn about electronics and software. Build my own floppy disk controller board, etc. I was challenged and had to engage in discovery and there was no internet to hold my hand. I am not sure what the modern equivalent to this might be. I find that things like Pi, for some kids, make things so easy that they are bored almost instantly. Once they get the thing up and going there's nothing to do or whatever it is they can do gets complicated and messy very quickly. At the other end of the scale I see kids absolutely ripping it with Scratch on their laptops. It's fun, interesting and challenging enough with some guidance. I don't have the answers. Just a brain dump from working with about 100 kids of different ages and levels of motivation in two robotics programs.

rebootthesystem 11y ago
I wish down-voters would take a moment to explain why they think a $5 crippled computer is better than a $39 full-featured board. The context is that, in order to make use of the $5 crippled computer you have to spend, at a minimum, $100 in a keyboard, mouse monitor and power adapter. I'm sure someone will say you can build little sprinkler system controllers and LED light blinkers and all all manner of other little projects. Well, here's the problem: Why aren't we teaching our kids to do just that with little $0.50 microcontrollers? Why do we need a HUGE operating system running a gigahertz to teach or build the simplest things? Here's a over 1,000 microcontrollers from $0.55 upwards with peripherals ranging from CAN, I2C, SPI, UART, USB, USB-OTG, A/D, D/A, Timers, Counters, PWM, WDT, Motor Control, LCD, etc. http://goo.gl/Lc5gP6 http://goo.gl/Lc5gP6 What I see on my end, working with lots of kids, are a bunch of Pi's being bought only to collect dust. The idea of a super-cheap computer on a bubblegum stick might be interesting and heart-warming but the reality I see is that the vast majority of them are bought because of the novelty factor and they set aside and ignored. I've had far more success with the kids by adopting a simple little 8 bit microprocessor and then teaching them how to do all kinds of interesting things with them in assembler at first and C later. Their eyes and minds really open up and they gain an understanding that simply cannot be had by having a bubblegum computer with Linux that comes up to a command prompt. Worlds apart. And, oh, yes, none of my kids will ever be confused about pointers, stacks, memory management and a whole host of topics that confuse those who's first contact with computing is running Python on a stick computer of some sort...to turn on a sprinklers valve using a bunch of libraries and megabytes of coder running on a GHz processor. It's a lot more work as a mentor, but if you really care about the kids and want them to learn and engage their brains, you can't throw a "done for you" solution at them.
- walterbell 11y ago
  Bravo. Even more infantilizing are the electronic kits from http://littlebits.cc http://littlebits.cc.
  - rebootthesystem 11y ago
    The weak link is always curriculum. Without a "plan" and mentorship kids learn very little. Sure, they can follow step by step instructions, click things together but they are learning very little. Most kids learn nothing about strength of mechanical shapes by clicking together lego blocks. However, a curriculum that explicitly teaches how different structural shapes behave under various loads does teach them a lot. Ergo, the vast majority of kids only learn so much by following lego assembly instructions kit after kit. That's not to say that these toys are not useful. They are. What I am pushing back against is that the cost of the educational toy or tool is directly related to the level of learning it can provide. BTW, I do think that "little bits" can be useful with the right curriculum. Yet, we are talking about $200 again. This only strengthens my argument that a dive for the bottom it utterly meaningless when it comes to delivering usable value, either for education or for other applications. In the case of poor countries or really poor people, yes, of course, lower cost could be the difference between access and no access. Yet, that's not the whole story because they need to spend at least $100 to play. Is that the primary argument and mission of the various Pi boards? To serve the poor? Because, if it is, then I'd like to understand why it uses a video interface that requires fairly recent monitor that will cost somewhere around $80 and $100 in the US. Anyone who can spend that kind of money can afford something much better than a Pi. And far more useful... Something like this: http://goo.gl/QnkvrS http://goo.gl/QnkvrS or this: http://goo.gl/Mrgatw http://goo.gl/Mrgatw Most Pi's end-up off in a corner collecting dust or in landfills. They are neat, but I have yet to find them useful. They are not the best financial investment in terms of education. And they are certainly not good enough to be used in commercial or industrial systems. I think their popularity is more of an emotional reaction than a rational decision. You can buy a fully functional Windows laptop for $100. And, if want to run Linux you can dual boot or install a VM. I just don't see it. And I am talking out of experience with kids from ages 9 up to 17.

rebootthesystem 11y ago

I wish down-voters would take a moment to explain why they think a $5 crippled computer is better than a $39 full-featured board. The context is that, in order to make use of the $5 crippled computer you have to spend, at a minimum, $100 in a keyboard, mouse monitor and power adapter. I'm sure someone will say you can build little sprinkler system controllers and LED light blinkers and all all manner of other little projects. Well, here's the problem: Why aren't we teaching our kids to do just that with little $0.50 microcontrollers? Why do we need a HUGE operating system running a gigahertz to teach or build the simplest things? Here's a over 1,000 microcontrollers from $0.55 upwards with peripherals ranging from CAN, I2C, SPI, UART, USB, USB-OTG, A/D, D/A, Timers, Counters, PWM, WDT, Motor Control, LCD, etc. http://goo.gl/Lc5gP6 http://goo.gl/Lc5gP6 What I see on my end, working with lots of kids, are a bunch of Pi's being bought only to collect dust. The idea of a super-cheap computer on a bubblegum stick might be interesting and heart-warming but the reality I see is that the vast majority of them are bought because of the novelty factor and they set aside and ignored. I've had far more success with the kids by adopting a simple little 8 bit microprocessor and then teaching them how to do all kinds of interesting things with them in assembler at first and C later. Their eyes and minds really open up and they gain an understanding that simply cannot be had by having a bubblegum computer with Linux that comes up to a command prompt. Worlds apart. And, oh, yes, none of my kids will ever be confused about pointers, stacks, memory management and a whole host of topics that confuse those who's first contact with computing is running Python on a stick computer of some sort...to turn on a sprinklers valve using a bunch of libraries and megabytes of coder running on a GHz processor. It's a lot more work as a mentor, but if you really care about the kids and want them to learn and engage their brains, you can't throw a "done for you" solution at them.

walterbell 11y ago
Bravo. Even more infantilizing are the electronic kits from http://littlebits.cc http://littlebits.cc.
- rebootthesystem 11y ago
  The weak link is always curriculum. Without a "plan" and mentorship kids learn very little. Sure, they can follow step by step instructions, click things together but they are learning very little. Most kids learn nothing about strength of mechanical shapes by clicking together lego blocks. However, a curriculum that explicitly teaches how different structural shapes behave under various loads does teach them a lot. Ergo, the vast majority of kids only learn so much by following lego assembly instructions kit after kit. That's not to say that these toys are not useful. They are. What I am pushing back against is that the cost of the educational toy or tool is directly related to the level of learning it can provide. BTW, I do think that "little bits" can be useful with the right curriculum. Yet, we are talking about $200 again. This only strengthens my argument that a dive for the bottom it utterly meaningless when it comes to delivering usable value, either for education or for other applications. In the case of poor countries or really poor people, yes, of course, lower cost could be the difference between access and no access. Yet, that's not the whole story because they need to spend at least $100 to play. Is that the primary argument and mission of the various Pi boards? To serve the poor? Because, if it is, then I'd like to understand why it uses a video interface that requires fairly recent monitor that will cost somewhere around $80 and $100 in the US. Anyone who can spend that kind of money can afford something much better than a Pi. And far more useful... Something like this: http://goo.gl/QnkvrS http://goo.gl/QnkvrS or this: http://goo.gl/Mrgatw http://goo.gl/Mrgatw Most Pi's end-up off in a corner collecting dust or in landfills. They are neat, but I have yet to find them useful. They are not the best financial investment in terms of education. And they are certainly not good enough to be used in commercial or industrial systems. I think their popularity is more of an emotional reaction than a rational decision. You can buy a fully functional Windows laptop for $100. And, if want to run Linux you can dual boot or install a VM. I just don't see it. And I am talking out of experience with kids from ages 9 up to 17.