9 ms·

Ousted Founder of Men’s Wearhouse Watches His Old Company Struggle

132 points by pavornyoh 11y ago

wyclif 11y ago
I'd love to hear advice from any HNers in the know about the best way to buy quality tailored menswear and get the most bang for your buck, particularly suits. I know you're not going to get that at a chain, and there's a lot of information about bespoke online, but I'd like to know what HN thinks about it.
- petewailes 11y ago
  Where in the world are you? Editting since I can't reply. Technologically limiting... There's an irony here. So the first thing is to understand the kind of tailoring you're after. There's a difference between fully bespoke and having adjustments made. The latter is 98% of the fit that you'll get, with a shorter time to wait, and you'll be wearing similar things before which can give you a better idea of what you'll end up with if you haven't bought a fully tailored suit before. The second thing is to consider what you're buying for. There's a difference, obviously, between buying for a daily suit to wear, and purchasing for a more formal or occasion specific outfit (for example, a white tie event suit with tails). That being said, here's some general pointers. Wool is worth the money. It wears well, it's classic, and it'll be able to adjust nicely if you put on or lose weight/muscle. A good navy or charcoal wool suit as a daily is a solid choice. Look for a good weight in a daily wear. 8-10oz would be my choice. Jacket: partially or ideally fully canvased would by my choice. It's more expensive but harder wearing, and it'll mould to.the shape of your body better. It'll also generally have better definition and shape. Ask what will be hand sewn. More fiddly areas like the cuffs and collar will get a better fit if hand finished. On a similar note, think about what you want in terms of a style considering your body shape. If you're leaner, a suit with narrow darts and some padding in the shoulder will accentuate the torso. Pinstripes have a similar effect, in lengthening the body. Talk to your tailor and get recommendations based on your particular body shape. For example, I'm tall bit broad shouldered, so I tend to go for a smaller card shoulder pad, to allow for definition but still create mobility in the arms. Now, for more formal wear, you're going to be getting more expensive. Similar considerations apply, but think about the whole outfit. What shoes you'll be wearing will influence fabric colour choice. Is it white or black tie? Bow tie or less formal? For a full white tie outfit, for example, you'll want to think about how often you'll wear it. There's places you can save money, in terms of garment longevity if you aren't planning on wearing regularly. For example, lighter wools will cost less (essentially you're buying less material, and the thinner wools are easier to work). Also, plan to spend some time. A full fitting will be between 30-50ish measurements, depending on your size and body shape. That takes time. Ask about how many times you'll need to be fitted. Assume twice, but a larger person may need three or four. Finally, I'd generally say classic for formal and daily, but modern for events. For example, if I'm attending a more relaxed business event, I'll wear a Saville Row with a particularly bright lining, or perhaps something with a more interesting outer fabric. If you want to chat more, feel free to email me. Apologies for any typos - on my mobile.
  - wyclif 11y ago
    The USA.
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  I'd be interested in that as well. I've heard people say that a well-tailored suit or tux can be exceptionally comfortable, to the point that some prefer them over "business casual" attire; that would be the polar opposite of my usual experience.
  - jschwartzi 11y ago
    Business casual isn't usually expertly tailored. Tailoring makes clothes fit better, which makes them more comfortable.
- andirk 11y ago
  I live in the Bay (apparently so does Zimmer). Some girls came to our office and took our measurements. I got a tailored dress shirt for $100 https://www.trumaker.com https://www.trumaker.com . Really quality too. I brag about how it's tailored if someone compliments me on it.
- dsacco 11y ago
  Well, that entirely depends on your goals, budget and location. Do you want a made to measure suit, tailored to your body? Or do you want a bespoke suit (mostly the same, but tailored entirely by hand). If you're in America and you'd like an entry level "luxury" made to measure suit, Brooks Brothers is nice at $1500/suit or so. You can also try for other luxury brands, up to and including Tom Ford, at $40,000/suit (or more). For a bespoke suit you can spend anywhere from $2000 (cheap) to mid five figures. Saville Row in London is "the place" to go for these, but if you're in America there are many small shops in New York City across all sorts of price ranges. In general a bespoke suit is better than a merely made to measure suit (at least financially it has a better cost justification and there is an "experience" factor), and a brand name is commonly thought of as less desirable than an independent tailor. Beyond that it's harder to give a good answer without more detail on what you want, how much you can spend and where you are. Personally I'd never get a suit at Men's Wearhouse, I have found the attention to detail and patronage there is lacking. At the absolute bottom in terms of price, mysuit.com is nice for bang for your buck factor. My personal recommendation is to spend the money on a bespoke suit, all things being equal. An experienced tailor making a bespoke suit will cost more, but will more easily achieve an attractive and comfortable fit than a machine will. You also have much greater choice. In my opinion, paying for a made to measure suit is only slightly better than buying off the rack. Bespoke suits are usually offered by independent tailors, not larger brand names. This means that bespoke suits are usually expensive due to the skilled labor costs associated with making a fitted suit by hand. But a made to measure suit is usually just a higher offering than an off the rack suit at a brand name luxury store (Brooks Brothers, Emporio Armani, Canali, Brioni, Zegna, etc.). In other words, you pay for some tailoring skill and a lot of brand name. I'd rather spend $5000 on a bespoke suit from an obscure but skilled tailor on Saville Row than $5000 on a made to measure Canali. I encourage everyone who can to purchase bespoke or made to measure suits, however. I find tailored suits so comfortable that I enjoy wearing them. The signaling effect is also nice. You can clearly tell the difference between a suit off the rack and a suit that has been tailored to a custom fit. If you spring for higher quality materials you can vastly improve the durability and comfort as well. If you'd like a few exact brands to check out, indiscriminate of price: • Bespoke suits - Huntsman, Gieves & Hawkes • Made to measure suits - Brooks Brothers, Canali • Tailored shirts - Thomas Pink, Turnbull & Asser • Ties - Hermes, Drake's of London • Shoes - John Lobb, Stefanelli, Bemer Hope this helps you out. EDIT: petewailes also has good advice in this subthread
- justin 11y ago
  MTailor is a YC company that makes a mobile app that will take your measurements via video and deliver you a custom made shirt or suit. (Disclosure: I funded them at YC). I've personally had good results with the shirts, waiting on a suit now. It is very competitively priced (I've actually told them repeatedly to raise prices!). I've gotten custom shirts from other tailors but prefer buying from mtailor now because of the ease of it.
  - fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
    MTailor or M-Tailor? Looks like y'all may have an imitator.
- thomnific 11y ago
  I'm in Canada and I really like BMV bespoke: http://www.bmvbespoke.com http://www.bmvbespoke.com It's small and family-owned -- two brothers based out of Hong Kong, but travelling around constantly. You meet them in a hotel room, get your measurements taken, and a few weeks later you get beautiful suits in the mail. (At least I've always had good luck!) They're tailor-made, nice quality, and inexpensive. They do shirts too but I prefer their suits myself.
  - johnatwork 11y ago
    How much did you spend on avg. for a suit?
    - thomnific 11y ago
      I usually buy when they have a promotion on of some kind -- I spend about $2k at a time and usually get a couple suits and perhaps a couple shirts. So that's maybe $800 (CDN) per suit? They also offered snazzier fabrics etc. for higher prices (although I still got 100% wool, not synthetic).
- rcurry 11y ago
  I had to wear a suit every day at one of the Wall Street firms that I worked for. The reality is that a "good" suit is going to be expensive - there is no way around that. If you don't want to shell out for a bespoke suit, you can also find very nice made-to-measure selections at upscale stores like Neiman Marcus. Prices vary wildly, but you are going to be looking at a minimum of around $2-3K for a decent suit. Also, if you're going to wear a suit for work and not just once a year to a wedding or whatever, you need to remember that you'll want two pairs of the slacks - you don't want to buy a $3K suit then tear the slacks six months later and find out you can't get that particular fabric anymore.
  - eitally 11y ago
    Not necessarily 2-3k. I just had a Hickey-Freeman MTM made via Nordstrom during one of their sales and walked out the door just under $1300 (for a $2k list suit). But yes, listen to this guy when he says to buy two pairs of trousers.
    - rcurry 11y ago
      Oh definitely - if you're not in a rush you can find some great deals like that. I have a couple of Hickey-Freeman suits that I got a great deal on (not as good as you though) and they have held up really nicely. I was actually surprised that they were just as nice as the some of the Italian ones that I bought and were considerably less expensive.
      - eitally 11y ago
        "not in a rush" -- that's something else worth mentioning. Most reasonable MTM tailors will still take 1mo+ to deliver your suit, and it's frequently more like 2mo. Bespoke isn't really much, if any, slower. To your point about quality -- I'm actually at a point in my life where I can afford and am willing to spend a bit on American made products (e.g. shoes, suiting) and do where practical. Even though the mills aren't here (Loro Piana, Elgin, Isaia, etc), at least the rest is.
    - zyxley 11y ago
- moultano 11y ago
  If you need several, fly to India and combine it with a great vacation. You can have a suit custom tailored for ~$200-400.
- johnloeber 11y ago
  If you want the most bang for your buck, you need to understand off-the-rack suits. They're generally cheapest, but the point of them is not that they're ready to wear. They are unfinished products, made to be altered. The point in an off-the-rack suit is that you buy it, take it to a skilled tailor, and (for a few hundred dollars) have it altered exactly to fit you. A well-altered off-the-rack suit will look quite good: not as good as a fully bespoke suit, but it'll be close. (Provided that the initial off-the-rack suit is reasonably good to begin with.)
- fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
  Buying several suits? Get yourself on an airplane to Hong Kong. Go to Nathan Road. Be accosted by a hundred Bangladeshi salesmen trying to drag you into their tailor storefront. Pick one you like. Day 1 get fitted, day 2, second fitting. Maybe allow another day for corrections. Before you go, do some research on fabric and stuff, and take photos of styles you like. If you don't know what to pay before you set foot in the shop, you might pay too much.
- jc4p 11y ago
  If you're not just looking for the cheapest, but good quality at less than $1,000, Suit Supply.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- n72 11y ago
  Check out suitsupply.com. Also, check out styleforum.net for good advice on menswear.
- elbows 11y ago
  I bought a suit from indochino.com this year and was really happy with it. They are made to measure and start around $500. I don't know if I'd call it a great suit, but it fits pretty well, and is more than adequate for someone like me who wears a suit about once a year. The fit and quality are definitely better than anything I've owned in the past, or anything I've seen off the rack in that price range. The customer service was also good. The first pair of pants didn't fit, which was probably due to a measuring mistake on my part. They took them back and remade them, no charge and no questions asked.
- CamatHN 11y ago
  Make sure its 100% wool for starters. Don't get ripped off by the plastic stuff. Get a 100% wool suit that you think feels quality. Make sure it fits you, the take it to a tailor to get it fitted.
jcroll 11y ago
Would be interesting to know exactly why the board was so vehement about ousting him.
- mschuster91 11y ago
  > A year after Mr. Zimmer’s ouster, Men’s Wearhouse acquired Joseph A. Bank for about $1.8 billion — a merger Mr. Zimmer had vociferously opposed. I guess that the board's personal coffers were filled with cash in order to get rid of opposition. Funny how it turned out in the end.
  - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
    The board will probably be okay. Employees and customers won't be.
    - mschuster91 11y ago
      Well but the in(v/f)estment fund will have lost a load of cash. And like Mr. Zimmer, I'm glad of this.
- pavornyoh 11y ago
  I have been curious as well and just came across this old Fortune article http://fortune.com/2013/12/09/exclusive-george-zimmer-on-being-fired-by-mens-wearhouse-and-whats-next/ http://fortune.com/2013/12/09/exclusive-george-zimmer-on-bei...
- itafroma 11y ago
  It seems he had a few bouts with the board about various issues and lost: http://ir.menswearhouse.com/press-releases/detail/12/mens-wearhouse-board-of-directors-provides-further-comments-on-termination-of-george-zimmer http://ir.menswearhouse.com/press-releases/detail/12/mens-we...
mschuster91 11y ago
> It’s curious we’ve allowed capitalism to become all about shareholders. For god's sake I hope this view becomes more prevalent. Viewing economy only through shareholder's eyes leads to a focus on only short-term gains - which might destroy the company in the future but who cares when stock goes up 10% in a quarter? Fuck this shit. The economy would fare a LOT better in my eyes if any investor over a certain threshold (10k?) was forced to hold the stock in question for 12 months at a minimum, similar to the waiting periods startup founders/co-owners have to endure before they're allowed to sell their stock. Such a move would instantly kill off those greedy funds which make a company go deep into debt, pay the money from these debts to the shareholders (i.e. the fund(s)) and then go bankrupt. edit: also, such a move would prevent people from investing in crapps like Yo, which got at least $2.5M in funding...
- blfr 11y ago
  The reason people view the economy through the shareholders' eyes is because very many of them are shareholders and count on the stock market to pay for their retirement. It's also the opposite of looking only for short-term gains.
  - mschuster91 11y ago
    Who, these days, is directly investing in stocks for their retirement? That's absolutely crazy imho. Just choose an index fund if you're in long term (http://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchelltuchman/2013/07/18/hedge-fund-vs-index-fund-a-comparison/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchelltuchman/2013/07/18/hedge...). Fuck hedge funds.
    - joshu 11y ago
      You mean mutual funds. Hedge funds aren't open to the general public.
    - walshemj 11y ago
      The why do many of the big stock picking equity income Investment trusts beat the FTSE 100 and over several decades.
c3534l 11y ago
I'm not surprised that a company whose management was selected largely on the basis of childhood friendship and whose members include Deepak Chopra, one of the world's most cyncial charlatans (really? You didn't think he was motivated by money? Do you even know who he is? His whole schtick is snake-oil sales) is not doing well. I also have a hard time believing this was as abrupt as the article claims.
- noobermin 11y ago
  My reading of the article didn't imply that it was soley on the basis of friendship, but just that one of his members was a close friend. EDIT: s/one/some/; s/a close friend/close friends/
  - pm90 11y ago
    >"His abrupt ouster came as a personal blow, especially since he counted some of the directors among his closest friends"
    - HillRat 11y ago
      Not surprising since BoDs are drawn from surpassingly small and tightly-intertwined groups -- though every market and market vertical tend to have their own sets. Everybody knows everyone in those worlds....
      - pm90 11y ago
        The interesting question then really is: how exactly do you staff a Board of Directors? Not a question that a lot of people struggle with, I'm sure. But perhaps something that needs a better answer than "with the people I know and trust".
    - mynameisvlad 11y ago
      Once again, nothing there implies that they were chosen solely because they were friends. Could have been highly qualified people who just happen to also be his friends.
robertnealan 11y ago
I coincidentally sat in on a pitch to Zimmer's new company zTailors about a year ago over at their office in Oakland. Having visited numerous startups in the Bay Area over the years, zTailors was one of the few that walking into their office you instantly knew it was being run like a real business rather than your typical VC funded runaway train. Also, I almost walked straight into Zimmer on my way out — definitely as impressive in person as in his commercials.
- VonGuard 11y ago
  He shows up at Salesforce.com's Dreamforce every year, and Benioff drags him on stage to talk about his work, or more recently, his new business. When he pitched zTailors this year, it was clear they were going to succeed, just by how he discussed the company. Additionally, it shows how savvy he is being at Dreamforce. Say what you will about Salesforce, building a startup in their walled garden can be incredibly lucrative if the mothership casts its eye upon you.
- wyclif 11y ago
  I wish Zimmer would go rogue and start writing a real talk blog about the menswear industry.
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  > Also, I almost walked straight into Zimmer on my way out — definitely as impressive in person as in his commercials. I know this is a little irrelevant and irreverent, but I've always found it remarkable that Zimmer is magnetic enough on television to inspire internet memes.
- marincounty 11y ago
  When I was in graduate school, I had a minor nervous breakdown. Not related to school, more about thinking too much about life, death, career, money, and I had a weird pain in my head--that I thought must be a tumor. I always went to the worst senerio? In those horrid months, I had one dream repeatedly, and it was so American. The dream was I was a chess piece on a large chess board. I think I was a pawn? In the dream, George was yelling at me so vociferously, the air from his lungs was blowing me off the chess board. I would try to grab on to the other chess pieces, but the gail force was so strong, I would just slide on the board. I knew if I was pushed off the board, I would just fall,and fall. When I got to the absolute edge, I would wake up--sometimes--covered in sweat. I have worn a suit, and tie one time since that period on my life. It was my sisters wedding, I couldn't wait to get the tie off. It felt like a noose. Not fun times, but I can look back and find some amusement in my pain. If anyone reading this is going through bad times, I can guarantee it will get better with time. In reality, George Zimmerman looks like a decent guy to work for. I felt bad when they let him go as the spokesperson.
PhoenixWright 11y ago
I'm really glad that the merger between Men's Warehouse and Jos A Bank's bombed. These were two great companies that constantly tried to one-up each other. I feel that level of competition led to both companies doing well. Then they got greedy and decided that competition wasn't easy and that collusion through merger would be better. Now they've killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Discount men's wear was Men's Warehouse and Jos A Bank's. I expect to see new companies enter this market to fill the void. Corporate governance is a huge problem in the market right now. Like others have mentioned workers and stockholders will pay for the ineptness of this board. Short term gain via activist investors is leading to crappy mergers, stupid breakups, and what should be illegal inversions. I actually believe this is another sign of a top in the market when you see "investors" trying to squeeze the last bit of gains though these types of schemes.
kelukelugames 11y ago
I remember he was pro pot and prostitution long before it was cool.
p00b 11y ago
“As soon as the tailor saw me he embraced me and started sobbing,” Mr. Zimmer said. “I have a bond with tailors. It’s not because I’m a tailor myself but because they know I care about how they experience their jobs.” On a day like today, I am especially grateful for all the "Mr. Zimmer"s in the world who respect the craft, even if they're not a craftsman themself. The tech world needs more of this kind of guy.
SliderUp 11y ago
He hits the nail on the head with his differentiating shareholders from stakeholders. Shareholders are just investors. Stakeholders include investors, employees, customers, and vendors. All of them matter. Like it or not, share price sideways to one of those groups only.
swang 11y ago
> George Zimmerman Zimmer. George Zimmerman is the piece of shit who shot Trayvon Martin.
- SHIT_TALKER 11y ago
  George Zimmerman is the man who was subjected to a media-fueled outrage campaign after lethally defending himself against an oversized thug who was on top of him and pounding his skull into the ground. The campaign against him involved the president making public statements effectively condemning him and his due process rights were cast aside to sate the bloodlust of the mob. (According to the laws of the state of Florida, he should never have even faced a trial.) People were walking around wearing "Kill Zimmerman" shirts and he was made the enemy of asshats like you who don't need to know the facts of any matter before developing an opinion. The episode inspired one jackass, Matthew Apperson, to try to murder him. All of this, mind you, was the result of someone daring to exercise his right to self-defense against someone who had black skin. If the dead thug hadn't had black skin, none of the ensuing lunacy would have followed.
  - CamatHN 11y ago
    Spare us he was just pointing out marincounty's mistake really.
    - SHIT_TALKER 11y ago
      While perpetuating ignorant propaganda. No one speaking against it helps bullshit spread.
      - swang 11y ago
        I know the facts plenty well, thanks. Ignoring how terrible the prosecution prosecuted the case (going for 2nd degree murder) and the terrible law that is Stand Your Ground, of course he would never be found guilty of 2nd degree murder. But after the fact, gloating about killing Trayvon Martin then posted a picture of a dead Trayvon Martin. You still defend this racist shithead? Sure dude, cool.

132 points by pavornyoh 11y ago

I'd love to hear advice from any HNers in the know about the best way to buy quality tailored menswear and get the most bang for your buck, particularly suits. I know you're not going to get that at a chain, and there's a lot of information about bespoke online, but I'd like to know what HN thinks about it.

petewailes 11y ago
Where in the world are you? Editting since I can't reply. Technologically limiting... There's an irony here. So the first thing is to understand the kind of tailoring you're after. There's a difference between fully bespoke and having adjustments made. The latter is 98% of the fit that you'll get, with a shorter time to wait, and you'll be wearing similar things before which can give you a better idea of what you'll end up with if you haven't bought a fully tailored suit before. The second thing is to consider what you're buying for. There's a difference, obviously, between buying for a daily suit to wear, and purchasing for a more formal or occasion specific outfit (for example, a white tie event suit with tails). That being said, here's some general pointers. Wool is worth the money. It wears well, it's classic, and it'll be able to adjust nicely if you put on or lose weight/muscle. A good navy or charcoal wool suit as a daily is a solid choice. Look for a good weight in a daily wear. 8-10oz would be my choice. Jacket: partially or ideally fully canvased would by my choice. It's more expensive but harder wearing, and it'll mould to.the shape of your body better. It'll also generally have better definition and shape. Ask what will be hand sewn. More fiddly areas like the cuffs and collar will get a better fit if hand finished. On a similar note, think about what you want in terms of a style considering your body shape. If you're leaner, a suit with narrow darts and some padding in the shoulder will accentuate the torso. Pinstripes have a similar effect, in lengthening the body. Talk to your tailor and get recommendations based on your particular body shape. For example, I'm tall bit broad shouldered, so I tend to go for a smaller card shoulder pad, to allow for definition but still create mobility in the arms. Now, for more formal wear, you're going to be getting more expensive. Similar considerations apply, but think about the whole outfit. What shoes you'll be wearing will influence fabric colour choice. Is it white or black tie? Bow tie or less formal? For a full white tie outfit, for example, you'll want to think about how often you'll wear it. There's places you can save money, in terms of garment longevity if you aren't planning on wearing regularly. For example, lighter wools will cost less (essentially you're buying less material, and the thinner wools are easier to work). Also, plan to spend some time. A full fitting will be between 30-50ish measurements, depending on your size and body shape. That takes time. Ask about how many times you'll need to be fitted. Assume twice, but a larger person may need three or four. Finally, I'd generally say classic for formal and daily, but modern for events. For example, if I'm attending a more relaxed business event, I'll wear a Saville Row with a particularly bright lining, or perhaps something with a more interesting outer fabric. If you want to chat more, feel free to email me. Apologies for any typos - on my mobile.
- wyclif 11y ago
  The USA.
JoshTriplett 11y ago
I'd be interested in that as well. I've heard people say that a well-tailored suit or tux can be exceptionally comfortable, to the point that some prefer them over "business casual" attire; that would be the polar opposite of my usual experience.
- jschwartzi 11y ago
  Business casual isn't usually expertly tailored. Tailoring makes clothes fit better, which makes them more comfortable.
andirk 11y ago
I live in the Bay (apparently so does Zimmer). Some girls came to our office and took our measurements. I got a tailored dress shirt for $100 https://www.trumaker.com https://www.trumaker.com . Really quality too. I brag about how it's tailored if someone compliments me on it.
dsacco 11y ago
Well, that entirely depends on your goals, budget and location. Do you want a made to measure suit, tailored to your body? Or do you want a bespoke suit (mostly the same, but tailored entirely by hand). If you're in America and you'd like an entry level "luxury" made to measure suit, Brooks Brothers is nice at $1500/suit or so. You can also try for other luxury brands, up to and including Tom Ford, at $40,000/suit (or more). For a bespoke suit you can spend anywhere from $2000 (cheap) to mid five figures. Saville Row in London is "the place" to go for these, but if you're in America there are many small shops in New York City across all sorts of price ranges. In general a bespoke suit is better than a merely made to measure suit (at least financially it has a better cost justification and there is an "experience" factor), and a brand name is commonly thought of as less desirable than an independent tailor. Beyond that it's harder to give a good answer without more detail on what you want, how much you can spend and where you are. Personally I'd never get a suit at Men's Wearhouse, I have found the attention to detail and patronage there is lacking. At the absolute bottom in terms of price, mysuit.com is nice for bang for your buck factor. My personal recommendation is to spend the money on a bespoke suit, all things being equal. An experienced tailor making a bespoke suit will cost more, but will more easily achieve an attractive and comfortable fit than a machine will. You also have much greater choice. In my opinion, paying for a made to measure suit is only slightly better than buying off the rack. Bespoke suits are usually offered by independent tailors, not larger brand names. This means that bespoke suits are usually expensive due to the skilled labor costs associated with making a fitted suit by hand. But a made to measure suit is usually just a higher offering than an off the rack suit at a brand name luxury store (Brooks Brothers, Emporio Armani, Canali, Brioni, Zegna, etc.). In other words, you pay for some tailoring skill and a lot of brand name. I'd rather spend $5000 on a bespoke suit from an obscure but skilled tailor on Saville Row than $5000 on a made to measure Canali. I encourage everyone who can to purchase bespoke or made to measure suits, however. I find tailored suits so comfortable that I enjoy wearing them. The signaling effect is also nice. You can clearly tell the difference between a suit off the rack and a suit that has been tailored to a custom fit. If you spring for higher quality materials you can vastly improve the durability and comfort as well. If you'd like a few exact brands to check out, indiscriminate of price: • Bespoke suits - Huntsman, Gieves & Hawkes • Made to measure suits - Brooks Brothers, Canali • Tailored shirts - Thomas Pink, Turnbull & Asser • Ties - Hermes, Drake's of London • Shoes - John Lobb, Stefanelli, Bemer Hope this helps you out. EDIT: petewailes also has good advice in this subthread
justin 11y ago
MTailor is a YC company that makes a mobile app that will take your measurements via video and deliver you a custom made shirt or suit. (Disclosure: I funded them at YC). I've personally had good results with the shirts, waiting on a suit now. It is very competitively priced (I've actually told them repeatedly to raise prices!). I've gotten custom shirts from other tailors but prefer buying from mtailor now because of the ease of it.
- fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
  MTailor or M-Tailor? Looks like y'all may have an imitator.
thomnific 11y ago
I'm in Canada and I really like BMV bespoke: http://www.bmvbespoke.com http://www.bmvbespoke.com It's small and family-owned -- two brothers based out of Hong Kong, but travelling around constantly. You meet them in a hotel room, get your measurements taken, and a few weeks later you get beautiful suits in the mail. (At least I've always had good luck!) They're tailor-made, nice quality, and inexpensive. They do shirts too but I prefer their suits myself.
- johnatwork 11y ago
  How much did you spend on avg. for a suit?
  - thomnific 11y ago
    I usually buy when they have a promotion on of some kind -- I spend about $2k at a time and usually get a couple suits and perhaps a couple shirts. So that's maybe $800 (CDN) per suit? They also offered snazzier fabrics etc. for higher prices (although I still got 100% wool, not synthetic).
rcurry 11y ago
I had to wear a suit every day at one of the Wall Street firms that I worked for. The reality is that a "good" suit is going to be expensive - there is no way around that. If you don't want to shell out for a bespoke suit, you can also find very nice made-to-measure selections at upscale stores like Neiman Marcus. Prices vary wildly, but you are going to be looking at a minimum of around $2-3K for a decent suit. Also, if you're going to wear a suit for work and not just once a year to a wedding or whatever, you need to remember that you'll want two pairs of the slacks - you don't want to buy a $3K suit then tear the slacks six months later and find out you can't get that particular fabric anymore.
- eitally 11y ago
  Not necessarily 2-3k. I just had a Hickey-Freeman MTM made via Nordstrom during one of their sales and walked out the door just under $1300 (for a $2k list suit). But yes, listen to this guy when he says to buy two pairs of trousers.
  - rcurry 11y ago
    Oh definitely - if you're not in a rush you can find some great deals like that. I have a couple of Hickey-Freeman suits that I got a great deal on (not as good as you though) and they have held up really nicely. I was actually surprised that they were just as nice as the some of the Italian ones that I bought and were considerably less expensive.
    - eitally 11y ago
      "not in a rush" -- that's something else worth mentioning. Most reasonable MTM tailors will still take 1mo+ to deliver your suit, and it's frequently more like 2mo. Bespoke isn't really much, if any, slower. To your point about quality -- I'm actually at a point in my life where I can afford and am willing to spend a bit on American made products (e.g. shoes, suiting) and do where practical. Even though the mills aren't here (Loro Piana, Elgin, Isaia, etc), at least the rest is.
  - zyxley 11y ago
moultano 11y ago
If you need several, fly to India and combine it with a great vacation. You can have a suit custom tailored for ~$200-400.
johnloeber 11y ago
If you want the most bang for your buck, you need to understand off-the-rack suits. They're generally cheapest, but the point of them is not that they're ready to wear. They are unfinished products, made to be altered. The point in an off-the-rack suit is that you buy it, take it to a skilled tailor, and (for a few hundred dollars) have it altered exactly to fit you. A well-altered off-the-rack suit will look quite good: not as good as a fully bespoke suit, but it'll be close. (Provided that the initial off-the-rack suit is reasonably good to begin with.)
fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
Buying several suits? Get yourself on an airplane to Hong Kong. Go to Nathan Road. Be accosted by a hundred Bangladeshi salesmen trying to drag you into their tailor storefront. Pick one you like. Day 1 get fitted, day 2, second fitting. Maybe allow another day for corrections. Before you go, do some research on fabric and stuff, and take photos of styles you like. If you don't know what to pay before you set foot in the shop, you might pay too much.
jc4p 11y ago
If you're not just looking for the cheapest, but good quality at less than $1,000, Suit Supply.
deleted 11y ago
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n72 11y ago
Check out suitsupply.com. Also, check out styleforum.net for good advice on menswear.
elbows 11y ago
I bought a suit from indochino.com this year and was really happy with it. They are made to measure and start around $500. I don't know if I'd call it a great suit, but it fits pretty well, and is more than adequate for someone like me who wears a suit about once a year. The fit and quality are definitely better than anything I've owned in the past, or anything I've seen off the rack in that price range. The customer service was also good. The first pair of pants didn't fit, which was probably due to a measuring mistake on my part. They took them back and remade them, no charge and no questions asked.
CamatHN 11y ago
Make sure its 100% wool for starters. Don't get ripped off by the plastic stuff. Get a 100% wool suit that you think feels quality. Make sure it fits you, the take it to a tailor to get it fitted.

jcroll 11y ago

Would be interesting to know exactly why the board was so vehement about ousting him.

mschuster91 11y ago
> A year after Mr. Zimmer’s ouster, Men’s Wearhouse acquired Joseph A. Bank for about $1.8 billion — a merger Mr. Zimmer had vociferously opposed. I guess that the board's personal coffers were filled with cash in order to get rid of opposition. Funny how it turned out in the end.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  The board will probably be okay. Employees and customers won't be.
  - mschuster91 11y ago
    Well but the in(v/f)estment fund will have lost a load of cash. And like Mr. Zimmer, I'm glad of this.
pavornyoh 11y ago
I have been curious as well and just came across this old Fortune article http://fortune.com/2013/12/09/exclusive-george-zimmer-on-being-fired-by-mens-wearhouse-and-whats-next/ http://fortune.com/2013/12/09/exclusive-george-zimmer-on-bei...
itafroma 11y ago
It seems he had a few bouts with the board about various issues and lost: http://ir.menswearhouse.com/press-releases/detail/12/mens-wearhouse-board-of-directors-provides-further-comments-on-termination-of-george-zimmer http://ir.menswearhouse.com/press-releases/detail/12/mens-we...

mschuster91 11y ago

> It’s curious we’ve allowed capitalism to become all about shareholders. For god's sake I hope this view becomes more prevalent. Viewing economy only through shareholder's eyes leads to a focus on only short-term gains - which might destroy the company in the future but who cares when stock goes up 10% in a quarter? Fuck this shit. The economy would fare a LOT better in my eyes if any investor over a certain threshold (10k?) was forced to hold the stock in question for 12 months at a minimum, similar to the waiting periods startup founders/co-owners have to endure before they're allowed to sell their stock. Such a move would instantly kill off those greedy funds which make a company go deep into debt, pay the money from these debts to the shareholders (i.e. the fund(s)) and then go bankrupt. edit: also, such a move would prevent people from investing in crapps like Yo, which got at least $2.5M in funding...

blfr 11y ago
The reason people view the economy through the shareholders' eyes is because very many of them are shareholders and count on the stock market to pay for their retirement. It's also the opposite of looking only for short-term gains.
- mschuster91 11y ago
  Who, these days, is directly investing in stocks for their retirement? That's absolutely crazy imho. Just choose an index fund if you're in long term (http://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchelltuchman/2013/07/18/hedge-fund-vs-index-fund-a-comparison/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchelltuchman/2013/07/18/hedge...). Fuck hedge funds.
  - joshu 11y ago
    You mean mutual funds. Hedge funds aren't open to the general public.
  - walshemj 11y ago
    The why do many of the big stock picking equity income Investment trusts beat the FTSE 100 and over several decades.

c3534l 11y ago

I'm not surprised that a company whose management was selected largely on the basis of childhood friendship and whose members include Deepak Chopra, one of the world's most cyncial charlatans (really? You didn't think he was motivated by money? Do you even know who he is? His whole schtick is snake-oil sales) is not doing well. I also have a hard time believing this was as abrupt as the article claims.

noobermin 11y ago
My reading of the article didn't imply that it was soley on the basis of friendship, but just that one of his members was a close friend. EDIT: s/one/some/; s/a close friend/close friends/
- pm90 11y ago
  >"His abrupt ouster came as a personal blow, especially since he counted some of the directors among his closest friends"
  - HillRat 11y ago
    Not surprising since BoDs are drawn from surpassingly small and tightly-intertwined groups -- though every market and market vertical tend to have their own sets. Everybody knows everyone in those worlds....
    - pm90 11y ago
      The interesting question then really is: how exactly do you staff a Board of Directors? Not a question that a lot of people struggle with, I'm sure. But perhaps something that needs a better answer than "with the people I know and trust".
  - mynameisvlad 11y ago
    Once again, nothing there implies that they were chosen solely because they were friends. Could have been highly qualified people who just happen to also be his friends.

robertnealan 11y ago

I coincidentally sat in on a pitch to Zimmer's new company zTailors about a year ago over at their office in Oakland. Having visited numerous startups in the Bay Area over the years, zTailors was one of the few that walking into their office you instantly knew it was being run like a real business rather than your typical VC funded runaway train. Also, I almost walked straight into Zimmer on my way out — definitely as impressive in person as in his commercials.

VonGuard 11y ago
He shows up at Salesforce.com's Dreamforce every year, and Benioff drags him on stage to talk about his work, or more recently, his new business. When he pitched zTailors this year, it was clear they were going to succeed, just by how he discussed the company. Additionally, it shows how savvy he is being at Dreamforce. Say what you will about Salesforce, building a startup in their walled garden can be incredibly lucrative if the mothership casts its eye upon you.
wyclif 11y ago
I wish Zimmer would go rogue and start writing a real talk blog about the menswear industry.
engi_nerd 11y ago
> Also, I almost walked straight into Zimmer on my way out — definitely as impressive in person as in his commercials. I know this is a little irrelevant and irreverent, but I've always found it remarkable that Zimmer is magnetic enough on television to inspire internet memes.
marincounty 11y ago
When I was in graduate school, I had a minor nervous breakdown. Not related to school, more about thinking too much about life, death, career, money, and I had a weird pain in my head--that I thought must be a tumor. I always went to the worst senerio? In those horrid months, I had one dream repeatedly, and it was so American. The dream was I was a chess piece on a large chess board. I think I was a pawn? In the dream, George was yelling at me so vociferously, the air from his lungs was blowing me off the chess board. I would try to grab on to the other chess pieces, but the gail force was so strong, I would just slide on the board. I knew if I was pushed off the board, I would just fall,and fall. When I got to the absolute edge, I would wake up--sometimes--covered in sweat. I have worn a suit, and tie one time since that period on my life. It was my sisters wedding, I couldn't wait to get the tie off. It felt like a noose. Not fun times, but I can look back and find some amusement in my pain. If anyone reading this is going through bad times, I can guarantee it will get better with time. In reality, George Zimmerman looks like a decent guy to work for. I felt bad when they let him go as the spokesperson.

PhoenixWright 11y ago

I'm really glad that the merger between Men's Warehouse and Jos A Bank's bombed. These were two great companies that constantly tried to one-up each other. I feel that level of competition led to both companies doing well. Then they got greedy and decided that competition wasn't easy and that collusion through merger would be better. Now they've killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Discount men's wear was Men's Warehouse and Jos A Bank's. I expect to see new companies enter this market to fill the void. Corporate governance is a huge problem in the market right now. Like others have mentioned workers and stockholders will pay for the ineptness of this board. Short term gain via activist investors is leading to crappy mergers, stupid breakups, and what should be illegal inversions. I actually believe this is another sign of a top in the market when you see "investors" trying to squeeze the last bit of gains though these types of schemes.

kelukelugames 11y ago

I remember he was pro pot and prostitution long before it was cool.

p00b 11y ago

“As soon as the tailor saw me he embraced me and started sobbing,” Mr. Zimmer said. “I have a bond with tailors. It’s not because I’m a tailor myself but because they know I care about how they experience their jobs.” On a day like today, I am especially grateful for all the "Mr. Zimmer"s in the world who respect the craft, even if they're not a craftsman themself. The tech world needs more of this kind of guy.

SliderUp 11y ago

He hits the nail on the head with his differentiating shareholders from stakeholders. Shareholders are just investors. Stakeholders include investors, employees, customers, and vendors. All of them matter. Like it or not, share price sideways to one of those groups only.

swang 11y ago

> George Zimmerman Zimmer. George Zimmerman is the piece of shit who shot Trayvon Martin.

SHIT_TALKER 11y ago
George Zimmerman is the man who was subjected to a media-fueled outrage campaign after lethally defending himself against an oversized thug who was on top of him and pounding his skull into the ground. The campaign against him involved the president making public statements effectively condemning him and his due process rights were cast aside to sate the bloodlust of the mob. (According to the laws of the state of Florida, he should never have even faced a trial.) People were walking around wearing "Kill Zimmerman" shirts and he was made the enemy of asshats like you who don't need to know the facts of any matter before developing an opinion. The episode inspired one jackass, Matthew Apperson, to try to murder him. All of this, mind you, was the result of someone daring to exercise his right to self-defense against someone who had black skin. If the dead thug hadn't had black skin, none of the ensuing lunacy would have followed.
- CamatHN 11y ago
  Spare us he was just pointing out marincounty's mistake really.
  - SHIT_TALKER 11y ago
    While perpetuating ignorant propaganda. No one speaking against it helps bullshit spread.
    - swang 11y ago
      I know the facts plenty well, thanks. Ignoring how terrible the prosecution prosecuted the case (going for 2nd degree murder) and the terrible law that is Stand Your Ground, of course he would never be found guilty of 2nd degree murder. But after the fact, gloating about killing Trayvon Martin then posted a picture of a dead Trayvon Martin. You still defend this racist shithead? Sure dude, cool.