5 ms·

Teardown shows Nest Cam is always on even when you think it’s off

64 points by swatthatfly 11y ago

CM30 11y ago
Take it as you will, but some of the comments in the article are saying that the only things left active are the wifi functionality to remotely switch the device on again, and that the 'camera' part is completely disabled as you'd expect. So at the moment, it's a bit less ominous than the title suggests. That said, I do find it irritating how many devices seem to want to be on permanent 'standby' nowadays, especially given all the talk about wasting electricity. Or the related worries about spies being able to remotely activate devices because they're not completely off.
- PeterStuer 11y ago
  It says it stops transmitting the video to the cloud service. It doesn't say it turns of the camera part. In fact, from the power draw and the ABI article it seems the only things being turned of are the camera indicator led and the motion detection. Recording seems to continue at 1080p.
  - dmd 11y ago
    > Recording seems to continue It has no on-board storage. Where exactly do you think it's recording to, if it's not transmitting?
    - rplnt 11y ago
      It doesn't have to store the video to process it?
      - dmd 11y ago
        No. Dropcam streams. There's no on-board storage. (Ok, maybe there's a megabyte or so - enough to store about one second of video for buffering before transmitting.)
        rplnt 11y ago
        How does that negate my statement? You don't have to store (much of) the video to process it locally on the device. As an example, it's being compressed before streaming. As to whether it does something with the video is another question, but it's definitely possible without storage.
        dmd 11y ago
        ... which is exactly what I said. You asked "It doesn't have to store the video to process it?", and I said no, it doesn't, other than a small amount for processing.
        rplnt 11y ago
        Ah, sorry, I misinterpreted your answer. My question was meant to be rather rhetorical. I forget it doesn't always work in written form.
  - ausjke 11y ago
    this could be technically true, if you shutdown the streaming totally, resuming it cleanly normally require a reboot, which is slow for customers, which is why the reason the encoding is kept running all the time. Been there done that.
listic 11y ago
I don't like paying money for devices and services that are able to steal my data and/or spy on me. I would like a security camera that is not able to connect to the outside world (when I'm back, it would allow me to see what was happening when I was out). I guess it should be allowed to the local network. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good one?
- jcrawfordor 11y ago
  Any normal surveillance system. E.g. an Axis IP camera with ZoneMinder (not that great but FOSS) or one of several commercial network video recorder (NVR) options running on a machine somewhere. Ubiquiti even makes IP cameras and an NVR appliance now. Any decent NVR will also support remote video streaming, you might need to configure your network appliances appropriately. Don't do analog. It's cheaper but it's not really worth it, you should get at least 720p these days (that means IP) and I'd reckon analog equipment won't be easy to buy for very many more years. Don't do wifi. You need to get power to the camera anyway, so run ethernet with PoE. All these WiFi surveillance cameras are crazy, jammers are pretty easy to obtain and burglars are going to start using them. In a business installation, you should segment the cameras from the rest of the network, with VLANs or separate switches. Dual-home your NVR or lock it down at a firewall. It's just good practice. The current trend of cloud-based surveillance is something I find very strange. It's more convenient in some ways than a local DVR or NVR but that comes at a big cost, including often monthly service fees! I think it's really only because of a lack of sufficiently consumer-friendly NVRs. There might be some money there for someone who takes that on.
- kbart 11y ago
  Simple. Get any IP camera and configure firewall on your router accordingly to disable its access to anything else than local network.
- fredley 11y ago
  I recently built one with my raspberry pi and the camera module. It was stupidly easy, all the difficult parts (motion detection, saving short video recordings) are all done for you. I upload everything to s3, and set notifications on the bucket to my phone. If motion is detected, I get an email within a few seconds. If you're serious about not being spied on, the only reasonable thing to do is to build it yourself. Luckily, these days, that's very easy and cheap.
swiley 11y ago
You can't really know what it does because the firmware is closed. Firmware on devices like this is an example of why open source is so important.
- rasz_pl 11y ago
  Dropcam has been rooted before, no idea if nest changed anything
callesgg 11y ago
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
- SixSigma 11y ago
  If it wasn't heard then it didn't fall.
upstandingdude 11y ago
How do I know the article is sensationalist shit? "vice president of teardowns at ABI Research" I am Senior Vice President of making spiteful comments at my house.

64 points by swatthatfly 11y ago

CM30 11y ago

Take it as you will, but some of the comments in the article are saying that the only things left active are the wifi functionality to remotely switch the device on again, and that the 'camera' part is completely disabled as you'd expect. So at the moment, it's a bit less ominous than the title suggests. That said, I do find it irritating how many devices seem to want to be on permanent 'standby' nowadays, especially given all the talk about wasting electricity. Or the related worries about spies being able to remotely activate devices because they're not completely off.

PeterStuer 11y ago
It says it stops transmitting the video to the cloud service. It doesn't say it turns of the camera part. In fact, from the power draw and the ABI article it seems the only things being turned of are the camera indicator led and the motion detection. Recording seems to continue at 1080p.
- dmd 11y ago
  > Recording seems to continue It has no on-board storage. Where exactly do you think it's recording to, if it's not transmitting?
  - rplnt 11y ago
    It doesn't have to store the video to process it?
    - dmd 11y ago
      No. Dropcam streams. There's no on-board storage. (Ok, maybe there's a megabyte or so - enough to store about one second of video for buffering before transmitting.)
      - rplnt 11y ago
        How does that negate my statement? You don't have to store (much of) the video to process it locally on the device. As an example, it's being compressed before streaming. As to whether it does something with the video is another question, but it's definitely possible without storage.
        dmd 11y ago
        ... which is exactly what I said. You asked "It doesn't have to store the video to process it?", and I said no, it doesn't, other than a small amount for processing.
        rplnt 11y ago
        Ah, sorry, I misinterpreted your answer. My question was meant to be rather rhetorical. I forget it doesn't always work in written form.
- ausjke 11y ago
  this could be technically true, if you shutdown the streaming totally, resuming it cleanly normally require a reboot, which is slow for customers, which is why the reason the encoding is kept running all the time. Been there done that.

listic 11y ago

I don't like paying money for devices and services that are able to steal my data and/or spy on me. I would like a security camera that is not able to connect to the outside world (when I'm back, it would allow me to see what was happening when I was out). I guess it should be allowed to the local network. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good one?

jcrawfordor 11y ago
Any normal surveillance system. E.g. an Axis IP camera with ZoneMinder (not that great but FOSS) or one of several commercial network video recorder (NVR) options running on a machine somewhere. Ubiquiti even makes IP cameras and an NVR appliance now. Any decent NVR will also support remote video streaming, you might need to configure your network appliances appropriately. Don't do analog. It's cheaper but it's not really worth it, you should get at least 720p these days (that means IP) and I'd reckon analog equipment won't be easy to buy for very many more years. Don't do wifi. You need to get power to the camera anyway, so run ethernet with PoE. All these WiFi surveillance cameras are crazy, jammers are pretty easy to obtain and burglars are going to start using them. In a business installation, you should segment the cameras from the rest of the network, with VLANs or separate switches. Dual-home your NVR or lock it down at a firewall. It's just good practice. The current trend of cloud-based surveillance is something I find very strange. It's more convenient in some ways than a local DVR or NVR but that comes at a big cost, including often monthly service fees! I think it's really only because of a lack of sufficiently consumer-friendly NVRs. There might be some money there for someone who takes that on.
kbart 11y ago
Simple. Get any IP camera and configure firewall on your router accordingly to disable its access to anything else than local network.
fredley 11y ago
I recently built one with my raspberry pi and the camera module. It was stupidly easy, all the difficult parts (motion detection, saving short video recordings) are all done for you. I upload everything to s3, and set notifications on the bucket to my phone. If motion is detected, I get an email within a few seconds. If you're serious about not being spied on, the only reasonable thing to do is to build it yourself. Luckily, these days, that's very easy and cheap.

swiley 11y ago

You can't really know what it does because the firmware is closed. Firmware on devices like this is an example of why open source is so important.

rasz_pl 11y ago
Dropcam has been rooted before, no idea if nest changed anything

callesgg 11y ago

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

SixSigma 11y ago
If it wasn't heard then it didn't fall.

upstandingdude 11y ago

How do I know the article is sensationalist shit? "vice president of teardowns at ABI Research" I am Senior Vice President of making spiteful comments at my house.