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Anecdotally, on my year around 75% of students were there just because CS was supposed to bring money. They've started CS studies while not knowing how to progr

by exo762 11y ago

Anecdotally, on my year around 75% of students were there just because CS was supposed to bring money. They've started CS studies while not knowing how to program, knowing nothing about operating systems or caring. For them it was a 9-17 future job, nothing more.

alexwebb2 11y ago
First time I've ever heard a 9-5 job called a "9-17" job. Decided to Google it to see how common it was, and all the results are for the Bible verse Job 9:17 - > He would crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason. Seems appropriate for some "9-17" jobs.
- silversupreme 11y ago
  17 is 5pm expressed in 24-hour time. :) I like your interpretation as well, though.
- cartoonfoxes 11y ago
  That quote is amazingly apt. Working in software can definitely be a "9:17 job".
- dllthomas 11y ago
  Far more appropriate than Job 9:5: > He moves mountains without their knowing it and overturns them in his anger.
brianwawok 11y ago
Well people come from different backgrounds. I went to UIUC having taken the only programming class my High School had, QBasic. I was in wayyyy over my head in my first C class slinging pointers all over (and then LISP - whoah). Other people came in after programming as a part time job for a few years. I think it's a little quick to say someone came in for the money because I came in not knowing a ton of programming. On the other hand if course I look at salaries when picking majors. Otherwise I would have been a sci-fi writer :) Programming is better than writing now that I learned it...
- dllthomas 11y ago
  I don't have any idea which side of the divide you'd fall on, but when I was in school there was definitely a group of people more likely to say "I'm taking X because it sounds really interesting" and a group of people more likely to say "I'm taking Y because I heard it's an easy A". Given the timing (tail end of the last bubble), I always thought of the second group as "there for the money". As with any generalization, it breaks down in plenty of specific cases.
the_af 11y ago
It doesn't help that there is this confusion that if you want to get a job as a programmer, you need to study CS, even though CS is not necessarily the best path to doing web development or writing iOS apps! This explains some of the frustration many students suffer, which makes them claim CS is detached from the real needs of programmers. This also explains articles like "the perils of Java schools" -- a "Java school" is by definition NOT teaching CS! CS is a theoretical field which has applications for the software industry (otherwise it wouldn't be very interesting), but it is "researchy" and theoretical first. It is the foundation of computing, kind of like applied maths, and not supposed to be training for your next job. Unless, of course, your next job actually requires a scientist or someone with a good understanding of the theory. This unfortunate conflation of "CS" and "programming" is so common it's starting to become the mainstream definition of CS, much to my annoyance, and soon it will no longer make sense to push back against it :(

by exo762 11y ago

alexwebb2 11y ago

First time I've ever heard a 9-5 job called a "9-17" job. Decided to Google it to see how common it was, and all the results are for the Bible verse Job 9:17 - > He would crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason. Seems appropriate for some "9-17" jobs.

silversupreme 11y ago
17 is 5pm expressed in 24-hour time. :) I like your interpretation as well, though.
cartoonfoxes 11y ago
That quote is amazingly apt. Working in software can definitely be a "9:17 job".
dllthomas 11y ago
Far more appropriate than Job 9:5: > He moves mountains without their knowing it and overturns them in his anger.

brianwawok 11y ago

Well people come from different backgrounds. I went to UIUC having taken the only programming class my High School had, QBasic. I was in wayyyy over my head in my first C class slinging pointers all over (and then LISP - whoah). Other people came in after programming as a part time job for a few years. I think it's a little quick to say someone came in for the money because I came in not knowing a ton of programming. On the other hand if course I look at salaries when picking majors. Otherwise I would have been a sci-fi writer :) Programming is better than writing now that I learned it...

dllthomas 11y ago
I don't have any idea which side of the divide you'd fall on, but when I was in school there was definitely a group of people more likely to say "I'm taking X because it sounds really interesting" and a group of people more likely to say "I'm taking Y because I heard it's an easy A". Given the timing (tail end of the last bubble), I always thought of the second group as "there for the money". As with any generalization, it breaks down in plenty of specific cases.

the_af 11y ago

It doesn't help that there is this confusion that if you want to get a job as a programmer, you need to study CS, even though CS is not necessarily the best path to doing web development or writing iOS apps! This explains some of the frustration many students suffer, which makes them claim CS is detached from the real needs of programmers. This also explains articles like "the perils of Java schools" -- a "Java school" is by definition NOT teaching CS! CS is a theoretical field which has applications for the software industry (otherwise it wouldn't be very interesting), but it is "researchy" and theoretical first. It is the foundation of computing, kind of like applied maths, and not supposed to be training for your next job. Unless, of course, your next job actually requires a scientist or someone with a good understanding of the theory. This unfortunate conflation of "CS" and "programming" is so common it's starting to become the mainstream definition of CS, much to my annoyance, and soon it will no longer make sense to push back against it :(