4 ms·

Right, vegans are not protein deficient and many people thrive on high carb diets (see blue zones, adventist health studies, etc.) Unfortunately we've all been

Right, vegans are not protein deficient and many people thrive on high carb diets (see blue zones, adventist health studies, etc.) Unfortunately we've all been bombarded with the protein myth (more protein == healthier) and even the smart people of HN can't seem to question this belief objectively.

agentultra 11y ago
And don't forget the cultural indoctrination in the West that meat is manliness. In the northern parts of the hemisphere when Spring rolls around the airwaves are inundated with advertisements for barbecues and beer. Meat from one source or another is the center piece for nearly every meal. And the restaurants, fast or otherwise, are only catering to this obsession with over-indulging in meat. The only thing that seems to turn people off it are cholesterol and heart surgery. Don't get me wrong a good steak is fucking delicious. But for me it's like cake. I can't and don't want to have it often. A good burger is good but to borrow a cliché: too much of a good thing... Can we ever eat insects? Well... can you make it look and taste like a classic cheeseburger? Will I still get my Sunday bacon?
- tertius 11y ago
  Meat is inherently manly. Consuming meat at the scale that Americans (for instance) do is not manly, it's extremely irresponsible. Steak as cake. I like that. I'm genetically susceptible to cholesterol more so than others. I like this way of thinking about it. Now, I would probably eat steak more often than cake, I don't really eat cake that much.
briHass 11y ago
Probably because it's not a myth that high protein diets are healthful. High protein diets typically result in better maintenance of lean mass (muscle) and better health markers if compared with one that replaces protein with carbs (http://examine.com/faq/how-does-protein-affect-weight-loss/ http://examine.com/faq/how-does-protein-affect-weight-loss/) Many studies have shown that replacing fat or carbs 1:1 (by calories) with protein leads to better body composition and (sometimes) slight weight reduction. (http://authoritynutrition.com/how-protein-can-help-you-lose-weight/ http://authoritynutrition.com/how-protein-can-help-you-lose-...) That's not to say that everyone should be eating bodybuilder levels of protein, but the evidence seems to support that focusing on it ahead of fat/carbs is probably a wise move.
- noondip 11y ago
  Please check the citations carefully. The very first one I opened said, > Funding sources: Illinois Council on Food and Agricultural Research, National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, The Beef Board, Kraft Foods, National Science Foundation (PI: Layman). Dr Layman has participated in speaker bureaus for the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association and the National Dairy Council. Another reported, > Supported by a Medical Research grant from Meat and Livestock Australia. Another said, > Supported by the Dairy Farmers of Canada, The Dairy Research Institute I am horrified some authors are brazen enough to report the following, and still be taken seriously, > AA acts as consultant or member of advisory boards for The Global Dairy Platform, USA; McCain, USA; Pathway Genomics, USA; Dutch Beer Knowledge Institute, Netherlands; McCain, USA; McDonalds, USA. Or how about, > DP-J, EW, RDM, RRW, AA, and MW-P have received compensation for speaking/consulting engagements with The Beef Checkoff through the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. DP-J has received compensation for speaking engagements with the National Dairy Council. AA has received speaker's fees and/or research grants form the Danish Meat Council and Arla Foods and Campina. RDM has received speaker's fees from the National Dairy Council. These disclosures of competing interests do not inspire confidence in the works.
  - briHass 11y ago
    Conflicts of interest are almost always present with something as fiercely debated as nutrition. On the low-protein side, much of the research is performed or reported by biased organizations like Center for Science in the Public Interest. Even if a moral case can be made for not eating animals, it shouldn't be allowed to influence nutritional science. Attacking conflicts of interest is an easy out (ad hominem); do you have some actual citations refuting the science in some of those references?
    - tertius 11y ago
      Only because no one wants to fund nutrition study, "respectable" organizations only fund studying disease.
    - noondip 11y ago
blacksmith_tb 11y ago
It's still important to get complete protein in your diet (which isn't that hard, and there are some plant sources of complete protein, like quinoa). Not to mention that it appear that high-protein diets (especially from animal sources) lead to a variety of health risks[1]. 1: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155041311400062X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413114...
- nawitus 11y ago
  You don't need to get a "complete protein" in every meal. If you're eating a varied diet, the "complete protein" requirement is trivially fulfilled.
cgh 11y ago
Vegans may not be deficient but they certainly aren't anywhere close to optimal. That's why very few strength and power athletes are vegans or vegetarians. People who concern themselves with building lean muscle mass, like me, do not seriously entertain the thought of plant-based diets, let alone high-carb ones. All of the data says otherwise: if you want to build lean muscle, eat quality protein that the human body will use most effectively. That means animals. If you are a non-athletic, sedentary person then I imagine a vegan diet would work, though I question the use of the word "thrive".
- nawitus 11y ago
  > ll of the data says otherwise: if you want to build lean muscle, eat quality protein that the human body will use most effectively. That means animals. Which data, exactly? You can get sufficient amount of protein to build muscle on a vegan diet.
- noondip 11y ago
  Check out Patrik Baboumian. It doesn't appear he has any trouble building muscle on a plant based diet.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

agentultra 11y ago

And don't forget the cultural indoctrination in the West that meat is manliness. In the northern parts of the hemisphere when Spring rolls around the airwaves are inundated with advertisements for barbecues and beer. Meat from one source or another is the center piece for nearly every meal. And the restaurants, fast or otherwise, are only catering to this obsession with over-indulging in meat. The only thing that seems to turn people off it are cholesterol and heart surgery. Don't get me wrong a good steak is fucking delicious. But for me it's like cake. I can't and don't want to have it often. A good burger is good but to borrow a cliché: too much of a good thing... Can we ever eat insects? Well... can you make it look and taste like a classic cheeseburger? Will I still get my Sunday bacon?

tertius 11y ago
Meat is inherently manly. Consuming meat at the scale that Americans (for instance) do is not manly, it's extremely irresponsible. Steak as cake. I like that. I'm genetically susceptible to cholesterol more so than others. I like this way of thinking about it. Now, I would probably eat steak more often than cake, I don't really eat cake that much.

briHass 11y ago

Probably because it's not a myth that high protein diets are healthful. High protein diets typically result in better maintenance of lean mass (muscle) and better health markers if compared with one that replaces protein with carbs (http://examine.com/faq/how-does-protein-affect-weight-loss/ http://examine.com/faq/how-does-protein-affect-weight-loss/) Many studies have shown that replacing fat or carbs 1:1 (by calories) with protein leads to better body composition and (sometimes) slight weight reduction. (http://authoritynutrition.com/how-protein-can-help-you-lose-weight/ http://authoritynutrition.com/how-protein-can-help-you-lose-...) That's not to say that everyone should be eating bodybuilder levels of protein, but the evidence seems to support that focusing on it ahead of fat/carbs is probably a wise move.

noondip 11y ago
Please check the citations carefully. The very first one I opened said, > Funding sources: Illinois Council on Food and Agricultural Research, National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, The Beef Board, Kraft Foods, National Science Foundation (PI: Layman). Dr Layman has participated in speaker bureaus for the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association and the National Dairy Council. Another reported, > Supported by a Medical Research grant from Meat and Livestock Australia. Another said, > Supported by the Dairy Farmers of Canada, The Dairy Research Institute I am horrified some authors are brazen enough to report the following, and still be taken seriously, > AA acts as consultant or member of advisory boards for The Global Dairy Platform, USA; McCain, USA; Pathway Genomics, USA; Dutch Beer Knowledge Institute, Netherlands; McCain, USA; McDonalds, USA. Or how about, > DP-J, EW, RDM, RRW, AA, and MW-P have received compensation for speaking/consulting engagements with The Beef Checkoff through the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. DP-J has received compensation for speaking engagements with the National Dairy Council. AA has received speaker's fees and/or research grants form the Danish Meat Council and Arla Foods and Campina. RDM has received speaker's fees from the National Dairy Council. These disclosures of competing interests do not inspire confidence in the works.
- briHass 11y ago
  Conflicts of interest are almost always present with something as fiercely debated as nutrition. On the low-protein side, much of the research is performed or reported by biased organizations like Center for Science in the Public Interest. Even if a moral case can be made for not eating animals, it shouldn't be allowed to influence nutritional science. Attacking conflicts of interest is an easy out (ad hominem); do you have some actual citations refuting the science in some of those references?
  - tertius 11y ago
    Only because no one wants to fund nutrition study, "respectable" organizations only fund studying disease.
  - noondip 11y ago

blacksmith_tb 11y ago

It's still important to get complete protein in your diet (which isn't that hard, and there are some plant sources of complete protein, like quinoa). Not to mention that it appear that high-protein diets (especially from animal sources) lead to a variety of health risks[1]. 1: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155041311400062X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413114...

nawitus 11y ago
You don't need to get a "complete protein" in every meal. If you're eating a varied diet, the "complete protein" requirement is trivially fulfilled.

cgh 11y ago

Vegans may not be deficient but they certainly aren't anywhere close to optimal. That's why very few strength and power athletes are vegans or vegetarians. People who concern themselves with building lean muscle mass, like me, do not seriously entertain the thought of plant-based diets, let alone high-carb ones. All of the data says otherwise: if you want to build lean muscle, eat quality protein that the human body will use most effectively. That means animals. If you are a non-athletic, sedentary person then I imagine a vegan diet would work, though I question the use of the word "thrive".

nawitus 11y ago
> ll of the data says otherwise: if you want to build lean muscle, eat quality protein that the human body will use most effectively. That means animals. Which data, exactly? You can get sufficient amount of protein to build muscle on a vegan diet.
noondip 11y ago
Check out Patrik Baboumian. It doesn't appear he has any trouble building muscle on a plant based diet.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]