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> eg: the core of SF, NYC and Boston are well served by public transit SF is, I think, a glaring opposite example: a city whose density should support transit,

> eg: the core of SF, NYC and Boston are well served by public transit SF is, I think, a glaring opposite example: a city whose density should support transit, but which does not have it. Not a single part of SF is served by what I'd consider "modern" rapid transit, meaning average higher than 30 mph, frequent headways during the day (~3-5 minutes), and 24/7 service with at least some reasonable frequency (~20-30 minute headways off-peak). One smallish corridor of SF is served by what I'd consider 2nd-tier rapid transit, the BART corridor, which isn't 24/7, and has relatively infrequent trains even during the day, but at least averages an OK speed when it does run. Most of the city instead has 1920s-level transit. For example, to get from the Outer Sunset to the Caltrain station is about 45 minutes on a streetcar. This is a distance of 6 miles, which should take about 15 minutes on a metro.

JoshTriplett 11y ago
> For example, to get from the Outer Sunset to the Caltrain station is about 45 minutes on a streetcar. This is a distance of 6 miles Yikes; you could walk nearly that fast.
- lmm 11y ago
  No you couldn't. Walking for 45 minutes you'll go maybe half that. And in a congested city you may well not be able to drive any faster than that; part of the reason the streetcars are slow in SF is because they get stuck behind car traffic.
  - JoshTriplett 11y ago
    I'd said "nearly"; six miles in one hour is not an unreasonable walking speed.
    - dalke 11y ago
      Yes, it is unreasonable. Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking : > Specific studies have found pedestrian walking speeds ranging from 4.51 kilometres per hour (2.80 mph) to 4.75 kilometres per hour (2.95 mph) for older individuals and from 5.32 kilometres per hour (3.31 mph) to 5.43 kilometres per hour (3.37 mph) for younger individuals; a brisk walking speed can be around 6.5 kilometres per hour (4.0 mph). Champion racewalkers can average more than 14 kilometres per hour (8.7 mph) over a distance of 20 kilometres (12 mi). ... > Power walking or speed walking is the act of walking with a speed at the upper end of the natural range for walking gait, typically 7 to 9 km/h (4.5 to 5.5 mph). Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_walking_speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_walking_speed : > Many people tend to walk at about 1.4 m/s (5.0 km/h; 3.1 mph). Although many people are capable of walking at speeds upwards of 2.5 m/s (9.0 km/h; 5.6 mph), especially for short distances, they typically choose not to. Individuals find slower or faster speeds uncomfortable. These all indicate that walking 6 miles in an hour is exceptional. FWIW, a 10 minute mile is faster than the 11:47 per mile average pace from the 5K run data set at http://www.pace-calculator.com/5k-pace-comparison.php http://www.pace-calculator.com/5k-pace-comparison.php . The average pace for males 25 - 29 is 10 minutes / mile.
    - lmm 11y ago
      It absolutely is unreasonable; 6mph is unambiguously a jog and not many people could keep it up for 45 minutes. An average walking speed is 3-4 mph - half what you'd need to do 6 miles in 45 minutes.

JoshTriplett 11y ago

> For example, to get from the Outer Sunset to the Caltrain station is about 45 minutes on a streetcar. This is a distance of 6 miles Yikes; you could walk nearly that fast.

lmm 11y ago
No you couldn't. Walking for 45 minutes you'll go maybe half that. And in a congested city you may well not be able to drive any faster than that; part of the reason the streetcars are slow in SF is because they get stuck behind car traffic.
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  I'd said "nearly"; six miles in one hour is not an unreasonable walking speed.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Yes, it is unreasonable. Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking : > Specific studies have found pedestrian walking speeds ranging from 4.51 kilometres per hour (2.80 mph) to 4.75 kilometres per hour (2.95 mph) for older individuals and from 5.32 kilometres per hour (3.31 mph) to 5.43 kilometres per hour (3.37 mph) for younger individuals; a brisk walking speed can be around 6.5 kilometres per hour (4.0 mph). Champion racewalkers can average more than 14 kilometres per hour (8.7 mph) over a distance of 20 kilometres (12 mi). ... > Power walking or speed walking is the act of walking with a speed at the upper end of the natural range for walking gait, typically 7 to 9 km/h (4.5 to 5.5 mph). Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_walking_speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_walking_speed : > Many people tend to walk at about 1.4 m/s (5.0 km/h; 3.1 mph). Although many people are capable of walking at speeds upwards of 2.5 m/s (9.0 km/h; 5.6 mph), especially for short distances, they typically choose not to. Individuals find slower or faster speeds uncomfortable. These all indicate that walking 6 miles in an hour is exceptional. FWIW, a 10 minute mile is faster than the 11:47 per mile average pace from the 5K run data set at http://www.pace-calculator.com/5k-pace-comparison.php http://www.pace-calculator.com/5k-pace-comparison.php . The average pace for males 25 - 29 is 10 minutes / mile.
  - lmm 11y ago
    It absolutely is unreasonable; 6mph is unambiguously a jog and not many people could keep it up for 45 minutes. An average walking speed is 3-4 mph - half what you'd need to do 6 miles in 45 minutes.