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I am not surprised by this action. Bottomline, China is a big bully. You want example? China claims all of South China Sea http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pa

by hh 17y ago

I am not surprised by this action. Bottomline, China is a big bully. You want example? China claims all of South China Sea http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8047206.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8047206.stm China that sent 250,000 troop over to teach Vietnam a lesson during 1979 war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War. On and on...we need to be tough on China. American CEO needs to think long term before moving jobs to China.

jhancock 17y ago
You can find many examples of China or other countries playing the bully. You'll get no disagreement from me. Your point that "American CEO needs to think long term before moving jobs to China" gets closer to where we may find a solution. The trouble is that CEOs do not concern themselves with human rights in China or Intellectual Property other than their own. They make decisions for the most part on immediate value creation for shareholders.
- pchristensen 17y ago
  But he's trying to show that any company that's concerned about its IP should worry about sending jobs to China, even if it's just for self-interest.
  - jhancock 17y ago
    If every CEO was a devote human, environment, and IP rights advocate and they all agreed to protecting these rights in the same manner, we wouldn't have a problem on this side of the equation. Government and their proxy organizations, such as the WTO, are the ones that are supposed to level the playing field to ensure the CEOs have their hands bound on rules for engaging with developing countries. I do not believe we are close to handling this well. [EDIT] It is fair to say that some foreign entities do a better job at respecting "global" thinking in regards to human, environment, and IP rights for their China engagements. As an example of worker "preference", several years ago, a poll was published (I think it was the China Daily, but I could be wrong) asking workers what boss would they rather have. The results, in order of preference: U.S., European (seen as more strict than the Americans), local Chinese, non-mainland Chinese (Taiwan, HK). These poll results seem in line with my experience.
sketerpot 17y ago
It's remarkably ineffective bullying. Oh no, the web site was down for several minutes, and some unnecessary expenses were incurred! We're doomed! What these guys need to learn to do is say "Fuck you, you're an idiot, and here is a coherent rebuttal:" and submit it to the news aggregators that gave the original article its popularity. There are enough contrarians that it should be easy to get a lot of people to read your rebuttal and take it seriously. Launching some half-assed attack on a server is the equivalent of just flinging poo, and it just doesn't work.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  The thing is, the Chinese are fiercely nationalistic - it would not surprise me at all if many of these attacks are being done without government sanction. I would tread carefully on news like this - it's easy to read too much into it, and it's too easy to manipulate, kind of like blaming all communists because one of them set fire to a building.
  - hh 17y ago
    Are you kidding me? Take a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_gSasJPs1Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_gSasJPs1Y. Chinese Plain-Clothes Officials Block CNN Cameras With Umbrellas In Tienanmen Square. How low can the Chinese government goes? They operated like a gang, no less.
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      And how does this indicate that these hack attacks are sanctioned or originate from the Chinese government? Nobody is saying the Chinese government isn't censor-happy and oppressive, but get a grip on yourself man. Talk to some Chinese - particularly the young ones - and you will find a population very truly eager to attack the West in whatever way they can. It's more than likely that a significant number of hacks coming out of China today are occurring out of people's own free will, not by the explicit order of the government.
      - 17y ago

by hh 17y ago

jhancock 17y ago

You can find many examples of China or other countries playing the bully. You'll get no disagreement from me. Your point that "American CEO needs to think long term before moving jobs to China" gets closer to where we may find a solution. The trouble is that CEOs do not concern themselves with human rights in China or Intellectual Property other than their own. They make decisions for the most part on immediate value creation for shareholders.

pchristensen 17y ago
But he's trying to show that any company that's concerned about its IP should worry about sending jobs to China, even if it's just for self-interest.
- jhancock 17y ago
  If every CEO was a devote human, environment, and IP rights advocate and they all agreed to protecting these rights in the same manner, we wouldn't have a problem on this side of the equation. Government and their proxy organizations, such as the WTO, are the ones that are supposed to level the playing field to ensure the CEOs have their hands bound on rules for engaging with developing countries. I do not believe we are close to handling this well. [EDIT] It is fair to say that some foreign entities do a better job at respecting "global" thinking in regards to human, environment, and IP rights for their China engagements. As an example of worker "preference", several years ago, a poll was published (I think it was the China Daily, but I could be wrong) asking workers what boss would they rather have. The results, in order of preference: U.S., European (seen as more strict than the Americans), local Chinese, non-mainland Chinese (Taiwan, HK). These poll results seem in line with my experience.

sketerpot 17y ago

It's remarkably ineffective bullying. Oh no, the web site was down for several minutes, and some unnecessary expenses were incurred! We're doomed! What these guys need to learn to do is say "Fuck you, you're an idiot, and here is a coherent rebuttal:" and submit it to the news aggregators that gave the original article its popularity. There are enough contrarians that it should be easy to get a lot of people to read your rebuttal and take it seriously. Launching some half-assed attack on a server is the equivalent of just flinging poo, and it just doesn't work.

potatolicious 17y ago
The thing is, the Chinese are fiercely nationalistic - it would not surprise me at all if many of these attacks are being done without government sanction. I would tread carefully on news like this - it's easy to read too much into it, and it's too easy to manipulate, kind of like blaming all communists because one of them set fire to a building.
- hh 17y ago
  Are you kidding me? Take a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_gSasJPs1Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_gSasJPs1Y. Chinese Plain-Clothes Officials Block CNN Cameras With Umbrellas In Tienanmen Square. How low can the Chinese government goes? They operated like a gang, no less.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    And how does this indicate that these hack attacks are sanctioned or originate from the Chinese government? Nobody is saying the Chinese government isn't censor-happy and oppressive, but get a grip on yourself man. Talk to some Chinese - particularly the young ones - and you will find a population very truly eager to attack the West in whatever way they can. It's more than likely that a significant number of hacks coming out of China today are occurring out of people's own free will, not by the explicit order of the government.
    - 17y ago