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KnightOS – an open-source operating system for TI calculators
- medina 11y agoWhich make me to check and... a TI-89 is still over $100.
- Igglyboo 11y agoThe product doesn't need updating and they have no competition so why lower the prices? If you want something newer with more power and more features they also have the Nspire line of calculators but the TI-89/TI-83 basically the staple calculator for highschool math.
- rz2k 11y ago> they have no competitors That is exactly why it would rub people the wrong way on a site where people are interested in entrepreneurship and also in disruption. Being approved by standardized testing institutions becomes a barrier to entry and a means for rent seeking. Of course there could be far better calculators for lesser cost that aid learning better, and more clearly reflected the types of tools that should be the default quality for practitioners in the real world. Compare the HP-12c in finance. It's extremely well-designed and optimized for a lot of patterns, and it even has a moderately steep learning curve that seems to enamor it to its users, yet it is absurd to argue that absent certification as an approved calculator for the CFA that there would not be be even better handheld calculators used more often that people spent time to learn. The TIbcalculator doesn't address either demand that goals of high school mathematics should address. It doesn't expose students to the state of the art, and despite its constrained capability it is costly enough to shrink the talent pool of high school students who get to take the tests that show off their aptitude and achievement.
- thaumasiotes 11y agoA calculator is necessary for the AP calculus test; calculators are allowed, but not necessary, for the SAT.
- zhte415 11y agoGenuine question: It is nearly 20 years since I was in post-secondary education: Why would calculators be needed for a calculus test?
- thaumasiotes 11y agoTo calculate certain definite integrals that you wouldn't expect a person to do by hand.
- zokier 11y agoI don't think the problem are standardized test institutions; for example Collegeboard, who administer AP and SAT tests, allow wide range of calculators from five manufacturers. Sure, they might not be the only game in town, but afaik they are the most influential one. I think the problem is far closer to the grassroots, down to individual teachers taking the easier well trodden road of TI monoculture for various reasons ranging from ignorance, busyness or fear.
- throwaway7767 11y ago> The product doesn't need updating and they have no competition so why lower the prices? They absolutely do have competition, see for example the HP Prime, which is far superior (IMHO) to any calculator TI puts out. The issue is that TI has a very effective market lock-in, so they don't have any incentive to innovate. They know students in the US will still buy their calculators because they won't be allowed to take the test if they don't
- detaro 11y agoSo they don't have competition for a giant part of the market.
- kristopolous 11y agoon ebay it can go for $65. I got mine in early June for $40. Supply and demand for school supplies are about as predictable as desk fans and space heaters.
- mrebus 11y agoIt's crazy to think I bought my ti-89 in 2000 it was 250ish. It ran on a 68000 that was already old AF, and I love that calculator. Why was it so expensive. At the time other graphing calculators existed but no other company had a comparable calculator(at least to me)
- gaius 11y agoI am an HP guy rather than TI but if they are of comparable build quality, you could still be using it 30 years later. Imagine that with a smartphone.
- jevinskie 11y agoI've watched this project on Github and have been impressed by its rapid evolution. At least on certain models, KnightOS is only possible thanks to a private effort to factorize the firmware's 512-bit RSA keys. [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_signing_key_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_signing_key_...
- ryan-c 11y agoI liked the way the factorization was announced[0]. Fun Number Theory Facts Gentlemen, A mathematical morsel for your entertainment and edification. The number 6,857,599,914,349,403,977,654,744,967, 172,758,179,904,114,264,612,947,326, 127,169,976,133,296,980,951,450,542, 789,808,884,504,301,075,550,786,464, 802,304,019,795,402,754,670,660,318, 614,966,266,413,770,127 is the product of 5,174,413,344,875,007,990,519,123,187, 618,500,139,954,995,264,909,695,897, 020,209,972,309,881,454,541 and 1,325,290,319,363,741,258,636,842,042, 448,323,483,211,759,628,292,406,959, 481,461,131,759,210,884,908,747. 0. https://web.archive.org/web/20090805011013/http://www.unitedti.org/index.php?showtopic=8888 https://web.archive.org/web/20090805011013/http://www.united...
- sneak 11y agoI mean, really - they used a non-trivial but practically workable math problem to block features from calculator enthusiasts. What did they expect to happen?!
- TeMPOraL 11y agoMaybe at the time the problem was intractable?
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- stephengillie 11y ago
- 0942v8653 11y agoI got a TI-84 Plus CE, which is the most recent version of the calculator (same screen as the Color Silver Edition, but with a faster CPU and a different case). A bit dissapointing to see that nothing has come out for it yet, but Doors CS is working on it - https://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11997 https://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11997
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- swiley 11y agoIt only says CSE in the readme, which makes sense. The older calculators (including the CSE) use the 8-bit z80 while the CE uses the 24 bit ez80. Furthermore, the OS and app signing keys on the CE have not yet been found.
- MaxLeiter 11y agoYeah I didnt know the CE was a thing; assumed it was the CSE
- striking 11y agoPast comment thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7896990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7896990 More info/online demo: http://www.knightos.org/ http://www.knightos.org/ It's really neat how you can target this to write C applications for TI-84s. Take for example, https://github.com/MaxLeiter/CoreLibCDemo/blob/master/main.c https://github.com/MaxLeiter/CoreLibCDemo/blob/master/main.c . If you don't want to use assembly, you don't need to. It's pretty neat.
- MaxLeiter 11y agothe issue with using C is that filesizes are huge compared to an equivalent program in asm
- striking 11y agoOf course. But it's neat, no? It could make prototyping for the platform a lot easier, before one commits to writing out the ASM for their app/game.
- MaxLeiter 11y agoOh, it's super cool (I made the demo you linked d:), just pointing that out for people potentially interested in writing C programs for KOS (as it is a limitation)
- nzoschke 11y agoI learned to program on my TI-85. First I read the manual and made simple Basic programs by hand. Then I found online resources to copy and modify. #ticalc on Efnet was a great community. They turned me onto making a homemade PC link cable, loading custom firmware, and downloading and writing programs in Assembly. The screenshots in the KnightOS header are extremely nostalgic. I'm glad to see the TI hacking tradition continue.
- dogma1138 11y agoTI's were the closest thing that some one who was born in the mid to late 80's to early 90's had to an "old school" PC's. If you were born after 84's most likely the 1st computer you had to deal with would've been already running Windows, (MS-DOS)Norton Commander/Customized Shell or something similar and came with a manual which thought you how to call a 1-800 number to load a disk rather than BASIC.
- ddevault 11y agoLead dev and project founder of KnightOS here. Nice to see it on HN again :) Happy to answer questions.
- zokier 11y agoDo you see some practical benefits of KnightOS or is it more just because we can and its fun? I mean is KnightOS equipped calculator really useful/convenient for something that vanilla TI is not? In contrast the other open calculator project I know, WP34s, aims to create the best HP style calculator they can based on HP HW. Is your aspiration similarly to make a really good TI style calculator?
- ddevault 11y agoWell, from a design and usability perspective, KnightOS is much more sophisticated. It supports multitasking and has a package manager and so on. That being said, there is poor support for math (yeah, really). I want to polish that up until it's suitable for classroom use, and then use it as a platform for promoting open source in schools and getting kids interested in programming/hacking in school. KnightOS is basically a Unix system, so it'd be nice to help bring those concepts into the hands of student tinkerers.