4 ms·

Reflexive defense of authority is a pretty common pattern. People doing it don't realize they're doing it, or they wouldn't. That's one of the fundamental mecha

by beat 11y ago

Reflexive defense of authority is a pretty common pattern. People doing it don't realize they're doing it, or they wouldn't. That's one of the fundamental mechanisms of racism, among other unpleasant things. Hardly anyone thinks of themselves as racist, so when they make a racist argument (not saying this one is, just making a broader point), they don't think it's racist - they think it's all about the equality. The classic example of that is the "All lives matter" response to "black lives matter". Saying black lives matter is a response to the daily bigotry and institutional racism that black people in America suffer, every day. Responding to that with "all lives matter" is a way of disempowering even the acknowledgement of institutional racism, of denying the unique (and uniquely negative) experience of being black. But it sounds like equality. People who say it don't say it to be racist - quite the opposite. Being racist by acting not-racist. It's ironic and strange-loopy, but that's how it works. Take it back to the post you're responding to. It's a reflexive defense of authority, the "few bad apples" argument. The first response to obvious institutional racism (really, this case boils down to "all blacks look alike") is to shout "Hey, the System isn't broken!" It's not broken if you're white, and you don't recognize how it treats people who aren't like you. It disacknowledges the experience of the individual at the hands of the System, by making sure defending the System comes first. Thinking about this stuff is hard. Just watch... this comment will get a lot of downvotes, for even saying this stuff out loud.

DanielBMarkham 11y ago
You know, I'm perfectly capable of explaining why I do things. Look at what you've done here: you've taken away my agency. Instead of letting me engage in a conversation, you've pronounced some over-arching reason for my comment, thereby not only eliminating anything I might have to offer, but wiping aside any category of comment that is similar to mine. Gotta watch that. It's perfect fine for an internal dialog. After all, we can't take a year to figure out what everybody we run into is thinking, but in an open conversation, well, the important thing is to converse. Who knows, each of us might learn something. "...Thinking about this stuff is hard...." -- It hurts, but somehow I'll manage.
- beat 11y ago
  1. My point was that you can't always explain why you do things. That "you" isn't personal, btw. It's true of everyone, myself included. We all respond according to our social conditioning. Thinking we're so smart that social conditioning doesn't apply is stupid. 2. I haven't taken away your agency, or rejected you from conversation. We're conversing right now, aren't we? And yes, we might learn something. Are you learning, or just reacting to perceived criticism? In the first paragraph of my original comment, I explicitly excluded you from the broad discussion of racism I went into. I shouldn't have to do that, it should be obvious. But one thing I've learned in these discussions is that people take things personally when they shouldn't, then immediately make the rest of the discussion all about themselves. Which is exactly what you did here. We're not talking about either the "few bad apples" you raised, or the problems of social conditioning that I raised. We're talking about how offended you are that I spoke up at all. If you can learn anything from this, learn to be aware of the risk of doing that. It's an incredibly frustrating thing for those on the other end. It's a major reason why women and minorities are very wary of discussing sexism and racism with white men. (And no, I'm not accusing you of being sexist or racist, so stop right there.)
  - DanielBMarkham 11y ago
    Thank you. I'm leaving my comment in place. It shows a nice example of not paying careful attention to the conversation. Too much of that on the net already.

by beat 11y ago

DanielBMarkham 11y ago

You know, I'm perfectly capable of explaining why I do things. Look at what you've done here: you've taken away my agency. Instead of letting me engage in a conversation, you've pronounced some over-arching reason for my comment, thereby not only eliminating anything I might have to offer, but wiping aside any category of comment that is similar to mine. Gotta watch that. It's perfect fine for an internal dialog. After all, we can't take a year to figure out what everybody we run into is thinking, but in an open conversation, well, the important thing is to converse. Who knows, each of us might learn something. "...Thinking about this stuff is hard...." -- It hurts, but somehow I'll manage.

beat 11y ago
1. My point was that you can't always explain why you do things. That "you" isn't personal, btw. It's true of everyone, myself included. We all respond according to our social conditioning. Thinking we're so smart that social conditioning doesn't apply is stupid. 2. I haven't taken away your agency, or rejected you from conversation. We're conversing right now, aren't we? And yes, we might learn something. Are you learning, or just reacting to perceived criticism? In the first paragraph of my original comment, I explicitly excluded you from the broad discussion of racism I went into. I shouldn't have to do that, it should be obvious. But one thing I've learned in these discussions is that people take things personally when they shouldn't, then immediately make the rest of the discussion all about themselves. Which is exactly what you did here. We're not talking about either the "few bad apples" you raised, or the problems of social conditioning that I raised. We're talking about how offended you are that I spoke up at all. If you can learn anything from this, learn to be aware of the risk of doing that. It's an incredibly frustrating thing for those on the other end. It's a major reason why women and minorities are very wary of discussing sexism and racism with white men. (And no, I'm not accusing you of being sexist or racist, so stop right there.)
- DanielBMarkham 11y ago
  Thank you. I'm leaving my comment in place. It shows a nice example of not paying careful attention to the conversation. Too much of that on the net already.