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This may be an ignorant question, but there are over a billion Chinese people, so what does it take to get those people to revolt against their hyper-oppressive

This may be an ignorant question, but there are over a billion Chinese people, so what does it take to get those people to revolt against their hyper-oppressive government?

raganwald 17y ago
Dissatisfaction with becoming the next great economic superpower.
- coderdude 17y ago
  Yeah but that's like wanting to become the world's richest man even though you know you'll never get to spend the money, and rather more likely be tortured or something.
Husafan 17y ago
For the rest of the world to stop aiding and abetting them becoming the next great economic superpower based on principled reasons.
potatolicious 17y ago
The separation of the Chinese racial identity with that of its government - most Chinese perceive the government as representative of their ethnicity, and despite whatever flaws must be protected against malicious foreign interests. So basically, the more posturing the West does, the more aggressively the Chinese will side with their government. Suffice to say, current foreign policy exacerbates this. No outside force can possibly get the Chinese to revolt - in fact any outside force is likely to do the exact opposite, and help cement the Communist regime's power. Most new-generation Chinese are happy to give up freedoms they've never known how to enjoy, in exchange for the chance to escape poverty and live a better life. So, the only way to get the Chinese people to revolt against their government is for the economy to stagnate, and for people to no longer perceive a worthy "trade" of their freedoms for economic progress. As soon as the people lose hope of a better life, support for the regime will crumble quickly. Speaking as a Chinese, anyhow.
- coderdude 17y ago
  Thanks, that clarifies my question for the most part. So it's like a V for Vendetta thing, except they all think they're going to live the good life one day.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    I also need to add that the Chinese government is not as oppressive as some in the West may think - or at least does not appear to be. There are some fairly simple unspoken rules (e.g., "don't talk shit about the government") that everyone knows, and if you follow them, nothing will ever happen to you. In other words, the Chinese government's oppression is consistent and systematic - a far cry from the secret police, death squads, random people nabbed off the street sort of perception that many Americans seem to have. This has probably greatly helped the longevity of the current regime. People will rebel if they see no effective, guaranteed way to dodge your oppression, but most will fall in line if you can give them a more or less guaranteed way to stay out of trouble with minimum tangible sacrifice.
    - rms 17y ago
      The rule isn't as as strict as don't talk shit about the government, more like "you can talk some shit about the government as long as you never question the ultimate authority of the Communist Party to rule China."
      - papersmith 17y ago
        I've been thinking, with the bi-factional government coming in 2012, legislative reforms, and all the changes happening while the communist party insisting on its supremacy, perhaps the party will one day be reduced to a figurehead only, along the lines of a constitutional monarchy (constitutional politburo?).
papersmith 17y ago
China may be oppressive compared to developed countries, but if you look at where it came from, at its current state it's probably the least oppressive government it's ever had. Historically revolts were fought by peasants over high taxes that left them starving. Now-a-days the issue is the lack of private land ownership, and the government is already implementing land reform for this specific reason. Corruption is still rampant, but people are generally kept well-fed. People will only shed blood if their livelihood is on the line, usually abstract reasons such as freedom of speech alone is not enough, these things usually only change gradually from within.
- tokenadult 17y ago
  at its current state it's probably the least oppressive government it's ever had. That's a commonly made statement, and I don't claim to have a basis for definitively disagreeing with that statement. But I have heard some historians claim that many of the regions of China had better governance in the 1930s (some under "warlords," and some under the KMT central government) than China has had at any time under the PRC regime. That would be an interesting historical question, and probably depends on which forms of "oppression" one counts and which subgroups of the population are most regarded in the analysis. Even as I knew Taiwan in early 1982 when I first arrived there, when Taiwan was still a one-party Leninist dictatorship that practiced censorship and even political assassination, it was a less oppressive place than China is today, in my personal view of what is oppressive and what is not and who is most oppressed.
  - papersmith 17y ago
    Interesting that you brought it up, I actaully thought about this for quite a while before I wrote the original comment. I agree the forms and targets of oppression between ROC then and PRC today are quite similar in urban areas. However, the main difference being that for most of the time Chiang Kaishek ruled China under martial law, and due to the amount of opposition Chiang faced back then, and the civil wars happening in the rurals, I would say the level of violence was much more severe. In the end though, China probably would have been better off if ROC stayed, but the fact of the matter is different. Note that by China I am referring to the mainland. Taiwan is hands down better off today.

This may be an ignorant question, but there are over a billion Chinese people, so what does it take to get those people to revolt against their hyper-oppressive government?

raganwald 17y ago

Dissatisfaction with becoming the next great economic superpower.

coderdude 17y ago
Yeah but that's like wanting to become the world's richest man even though you know you'll never get to spend the money, and rather more likely be tortured or something.

Husafan 17y ago

For the rest of the world to stop aiding and abetting them becoming the next great economic superpower based on principled reasons.

potatolicious 17y ago

The separation of the Chinese racial identity with that of its government - most Chinese perceive the government as representative of their ethnicity, and despite whatever flaws must be protected against malicious foreign interests. So basically, the more posturing the West does, the more aggressively the Chinese will side with their government. Suffice to say, current foreign policy exacerbates this. No outside force can possibly get the Chinese to revolt - in fact any outside force is likely to do the exact opposite, and help cement the Communist regime's power. Most new-generation Chinese are happy to give up freedoms they've never known how to enjoy, in exchange for the chance to escape poverty and live a better life. So, the only way to get the Chinese people to revolt against their government is for the economy to stagnate, and for people to no longer perceive a worthy "trade" of their freedoms for economic progress. As soon as the people lose hope of a better life, support for the regime will crumble quickly. Speaking as a Chinese, anyhow.

coderdude 17y ago
Thanks, that clarifies my question for the most part. So it's like a V for Vendetta thing, except they all think they're going to live the good life one day.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  I also need to add that the Chinese government is not as oppressive as some in the West may think - or at least does not appear to be. There are some fairly simple unspoken rules (e.g., "don't talk shit about the government") that everyone knows, and if you follow them, nothing will ever happen to you. In other words, the Chinese government's oppression is consistent and systematic - a far cry from the secret police, death squads, random people nabbed off the street sort of perception that many Americans seem to have. This has probably greatly helped the longevity of the current regime. People will rebel if they see no effective, guaranteed way to dodge your oppression, but most will fall in line if you can give them a more or less guaranteed way to stay out of trouble with minimum tangible sacrifice.
  - rms 17y ago
    The rule isn't as as strict as don't talk shit about the government, more like "you can talk some shit about the government as long as you never question the ultimate authority of the Communist Party to rule China."
    - papersmith 17y ago
      I've been thinking, with the bi-factional government coming in 2012, legislative reforms, and all the changes happening while the communist party insisting on its supremacy, perhaps the party will one day be reduced to a figurehead only, along the lines of a constitutional monarchy (constitutional politburo?).

papersmith 17y ago

China may be oppressive compared to developed countries, but if you look at where it came from, at its current state it's probably the least oppressive government it's ever had. Historically revolts were fought by peasants over high taxes that left them starving. Now-a-days the issue is the lack of private land ownership, and the government is already implementing land reform for this specific reason. Corruption is still rampant, but people are generally kept well-fed. People will only shed blood if their livelihood is on the line, usually abstract reasons such as freedom of speech alone is not enough, these things usually only change gradually from within.

tokenadult 17y ago
at its current state it's probably the least oppressive government it's ever had. That's a commonly made statement, and I don't claim to have a basis for definitively disagreeing with that statement. But I have heard some historians claim that many of the regions of China had better governance in the 1930s (some under "warlords," and some under the KMT central government) than China has had at any time under the PRC regime. That would be an interesting historical question, and probably depends on which forms of "oppression" one counts and which subgroups of the population are most regarded in the analysis. Even as I knew Taiwan in early 1982 when I first arrived there, when Taiwan was still a one-party Leninist dictatorship that practiced censorship and even political assassination, it was a less oppressive place than China is today, in my personal view of what is oppressive and what is not and who is most oppressed.
- papersmith 17y ago
  Interesting that you brought it up, I actaully thought about this for quite a while before I wrote the original comment. I agree the forms and targets of oppression between ROC then and PRC today are quite similar in urban areas. However, the main difference being that for most of the time Chiang Kaishek ruled China under martial law, and due to the amount of opposition Chiang faced back then, and the civil wars happening in the rurals, I would say the level of violence was much more severe. In the end though, China probably would have been better off if ROC stayed, but the fact of the matter is different. Note that by China I am referring to the mainland. Taiwan is hands down better off today.