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Many answers here say "No" because it talks about regulation. But the article is an interesting study: What website features could be disabled because they're s

by tajen 11y ago

Many answers here say "No" because it talks about regulation. But the article is an interesting study: What website features could be disabled because they're systematically addictive? The article suggests: > 1. To forbid infinite scroll, > 2. Sites should be required to flag users who display especially compulsive behaviours, > 3. Certain sites or browsers would be required to include tools that let users monitor themselves – how long they’ve been on a site,... I'm an addict of 9Gag. I'm also to a lesser level a compulsive reader of HN, fb, commitstrip, my sales dashboard, support tickets and emails. I'm not sure however what would be the solution. Actually it all started because the compilation time (60-90s) is just long enough to lose focus from programming and let me wander onto other topics (and if it were not fb, I'd find something else like my bank account). During compilation time, do you think it's possible to let your mind stay idle, as to avoid distraction and internet compulsive disorder?

Legogris 11y ago
> Do you think it's possible to let your mind stay idle during compilation time, as to avoid distraction and internet compulsive disorder? Meditation is a good start.
- eterm 11y ago
  I at first read this as "Medication is a good start" and I'm relieved to see on second reading it wasn't that. I suffer from the same problem though, the 1-2 minute compilation times are just long enough that I constantly distract myself opening and closing HN probably hundreds of times a day, often the content is identical to the previous time of opening, but the occasional nugget is enough that my brain clearly gets something from just opening HN even to just close it immediately that it has become ingrained in my working life. I'm interested to hear how you use meditation to break that?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
mnx 11y ago
Funny, HN already does 3... Maybe not a bad idea after all.
tdkl 11y ago
> Actually it all started because the compilation time (60-90s) Stand up, stretch, do some pushups. Imagine the benefits after 1 year.
bluejellybean 11y ago
> During compilation time, do you think it's possible to let your mind stay idle, as to avoid distraction and internet compulsive disorder? Probably, though this is certainly a problem I run into. Your line also gave me an idea, how about a script that blocks sites but only when compiling?
- tajen 11y ago
  Don't we need something to keep our brain active during compilation? It's rather the opposite: Black out Facebook/email as soon as compilation is over. The problem isn't being on fb, the problem is being there too long and decreasing the productivity.
hliyan 11y ago
I'm not sure whether we should use "addiction" and "lack of discipline" interchangeably. Ever since I was small, I've associated the former word with changes in brain chemistry that cannot be overcome with a regular dose of self-discipline (e.g. heroin addiction). If we can break it behaviorally, then isn't it a compulsion disorder of some sort?
- tremon 11y ago
  I don't think a solid line can be drawn between compulsion disorders and addiction. Both are reinforced by the reward mechanisms in the brain, and both can have (psycho)somatic effects that are hard to overcome with willpower alone. I would even guess that the lesser somatic addictions (e.g. cigarettes) are easier to overcome with willpower alone than compulsion disorders, but I have no actual experience or numbers to back that up.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    You need to add "habits" to the equation as well. All of those things exhibit the same properties. We differentiate them by a mix of how many problems it causes for the person, for the person's surroundings, and various moral preconceptions about what one should do. Biochemical changes and responsiveness to raw willpower aren't really useful metrics, because both habits and addictions affect the brain, and the whole point of a good habit is to make something that's resistant to willpower.
    - hliyan 11y ago
      I sort of agree. A decade's worth of force-of-habit could be as difficult as an addiction to break, but I'd be hard pressed to call it an addiction.
- corin_ 11y ago
  Addiction is generally defined as not being able to stop an activity that rewards you in someway despite the consequences. With drugs like heroin it's important to note the difference between chemical dependance and addiction. Chemical dependance can certainly cause addiction, but plenty of heroin addicts are (citation needed but I'm pretty sure) staying addicts because they want the high - which is the same principle as how people get addicted to gambling, or to weed (a drug that doesn't cause any physical dependance) - not because they are trying to keep withdrawal symptoms away. Of course, plenty of addicts do at some point want to quit and at that point the dependance can keep them addicted. Arguably the line between "addiction" and "lack of discipline" is subjective and arbitrary. It's possible to be a heroin addict, decide to never do it again, and... just do it. I've no personal experience but know it must be hell to try and do that, but it's absolutely possible. And former addicts, who no longer have any traces of the drug in their body, who have got past all the withdrawal... often relapse, for what you could call "lack of discipline". Equally, many people are addicted to gambling in ways that leave them losing all their savings, or addicted to weed in a way that they get nothing done in life because they're getting stoned all the time, or... For me, the line would be drawn based on how hard it would be to give it up, and how much damage is being done. If you're just annoyed that you spend too much time browsing the web, it probably shouldn't be called addiction. If you spend 95% of your time in the office browsing the web, and are concious that this is causing major problems for you, but still can't bring yourself to stop... addiction seems fitting.

by tajen 11y ago

Legogris 11y ago

> Do you think it's possible to let your mind stay idle during compilation time, as to avoid distraction and internet compulsive disorder? Meditation is a good start.

eterm 11y ago
I at first read this as "Medication is a good start" and I'm relieved to see on second reading it wasn't that. I suffer from the same problem though, the 1-2 minute compilation times are just long enough that I constantly distract myself opening and closing HN probably hundreds of times a day, often the content is identical to the previous time of opening, but the occasional nugget is enough that my brain clearly gets something from just opening HN even to just close it immediately that it has become ingrained in my working life. I'm interested to hear how you use meditation to break that?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

mnx 11y ago

Funny, HN already does 3... Maybe not a bad idea after all.

tdkl 11y ago

> Actually it all started because the compilation time (60-90s) Stand up, stretch, do some pushups. Imagine the benefits after 1 year.

bluejellybean 11y ago

> During compilation time, do you think it's possible to let your mind stay idle, as to avoid distraction and internet compulsive disorder? Probably, though this is certainly a problem I run into. Your line also gave me an idea, how about a script that blocks sites but only when compiling?

tajen 11y ago
Don't we need something to keep our brain active during compilation? It's rather the opposite: Black out Facebook/email as soon as compilation is over. The problem isn't being on fb, the problem is being there too long and decreasing the productivity.

hliyan 11y ago

I'm not sure whether we should use "addiction" and "lack of discipline" interchangeably. Ever since I was small, I've associated the former word with changes in brain chemistry that cannot be overcome with a regular dose of self-discipline (e.g. heroin addiction). If we can break it behaviorally, then isn't it a compulsion disorder of some sort?

tremon 11y ago
I don't think a solid line can be drawn between compulsion disorders and addiction. Both are reinforced by the reward mechanisms in the brain, and both can have (psycho)somatic effects that are hard to overcome with willpower alone. I would even guess that the lesser somatic addictions (e.g. cigarettes) are easier to overcome with willpower alone than compulsion disorders, but I have no actual experience or numbers to back that up.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  You need to add "habits" to the equation as well. All of those things exhibit the same properties. We differentiate them by a mix of how many problems it causes for the person, for the person's surroundings, and various moral preconceptions about what one should do. Biochemical changes and responsiveness to raw willpower aren't really useful metrics, because both habits and addictions affect the brain, and the whole point of a good habit is to make something that's resistant to willpower.
  - hliyan 11y ago
    I sort of agree. A decade's worth of force-of-habit could be as difficult as an addiction to break, but I'd be hard pressed to call it an addiction.
corin_ 11y ago
Addiction is generally defined as not being able to stop an activity that rewards you in someway despite the consequences. With drugs like heroin it's important to note the difference between chemical dependance and addiction. Chemical dependance can certainly cause addiction, but plenty of heroin addicts are (citation needed but I'm pretty sure) staying addicts because they want the high - which is the same principle as how people get addicted to gambling, or to weed (a drug that doesn't cause any physical dependance) - not because they are trying to keep withdrawal symptoms away. Of course, plenty of addicts do at some point want to quit and at that point the dependance can keep them addicted. Arguably the line between "addiction" and "lack of discipline" is subjective and arbitrary. It's possible to be a heroin addict, decide to never do it again, and... just do it. I've no personal experience but know it must be hell to try and do that, but it's absolutely possible. And former addicts, who no longer have any traces of the drug in their body, who have got past all the withdrawal... often relapse, for what you could call "lack of discipline". Equally, many people are addicted to gambling in ways that leave them losing all their savings, or addicted to weed in a way that they get nothing done in life because they're getting stoned all the time, or... For me, the line would be drawn based on how hard it would be to give it up, and how much damage is being done. If you're just annoyed that you spend too much time browsing the web, it probably shouldn't be called addiction. If you spend 95% of your time in the office browsing the web, and are concious that this is causing major problems for you, but still can't bring yourself to stop... addiction seems fitting.