11 ms·

Linux can be so amazing when configured especially for some tasks. For example, Jack on linux can deliver audio latencies under 2ms! The problem is that configu

Linux can be so amazing when configured especially for some tasks. For example, Jack on linux can deliver audio latencies under 2ms! The problem is that configuring Linux like this almost requires a CS degree.

i336_ 11y ago
I once had a brief conversation (via Reddit) with a guy using JACK for a commercial (embedded Linux) networked audio system. I wasn't aware of the exact specifics but I understand it was Sonos-style, embedded boards inside speakers. He wasn't particularly interested in talking about the work his team had done :P I think that proves your point.
- golergka 11y ago
  > He wasn't particularly interested in talking about the work his team had done :P As in, he tried to keep the secrets secret, or it seemed to be trivial and uninteresting to him?
  - anentropic 11y ago
    more likely the former
- cpach 11y ago
  This is a quite paradoxal phenomen that happens to some open source projects. The code is open and free, but some of the experts hold their knowledge very close to their chest. It's totally understandable since they of course need to make a living somehow, but it kind of defeats some of the benefits with open source.
  - eitland 11y ago
    Roughly speaking it levels the playing field. With Open Source smart people and companies that attract smart people get an edge.
    - cpach 11y ago
      Good point! But the hazard is that the we risk getting FOSS software that is unnecessarily complex to configure because of this.
      - eitland 11y ago
        In my experience proprietary software is often far more complex, in fact in another league than most FOSS SW for now (source: have installed and reinstalled so many Oracle databases, Enterprise Manager and APEX installations I have lost count.)
        creshal 11y ago
        Depends on the software and author. Case in point: sendmail; virtually everything ever made by RedHat (the software is free, but there's no useful documentation if you're not a paying customer… cf. NetworkManager, PulseAudio, GlusterFS … only systemd seems an exception, for now).
        cpach 11y ago
        Good point! However, I would agree that server/system software that is "best-in-breed" tend to be FOSS. But I'm afraid I have no studies or other hard facts to support my case.
      - cobweb 11y ago
        Configuration can be a pain. Sane defaults help and smart UIs help not to mention good documentation. I've been playing with some software over the last week that has wiki for documentation and an active user forum with people willing to help. But it's completely disordered and incredibly hard to discover. Half the battle with usability is making it easy to use and understand.
  - zapu 11y ago
    Some contracts are worded very... weirdly, so to speak, which makes talking about projects potentially dangerous.
  - mseebach 11y ago
    It doesn't have to be ill will, or even will. Something like JACK is a component of a system. Maintaining this component as open source is fairly simple -- but capturing and sharing the understanding the complex interplay of components and the tradeoff needed to achieve certain ends in the wider system is really, really hard. Linux might be free and open source software, but it's not a failure of anything that it doesn't come with a free systems administrator education.
  - nwmcsween 11y ago
    I don't think it's such that the person in question doesn't want to share the knowledge, it's that imparting the knowledge is time consuming and draining.
rifung 11y ago
Pretty sure even most people with CS degrees could not configure Linux. It's pretty specialized knowledge as far as I can tell.
- zxcvcxz 11y ago
  >Pretty sure even most people with CS degrees could not configure Linux. It certainly does not take a degree of any kind to "configure Linux". Not even if you're below average IQ.
  - robertely 11y ago
    Has nothing to do with intelligence. This is just a different knowledge domain, and there is shockingly little overlap with a traditional CS education.
    - Royalaid 11y ago
      To expand on this, its the difference between knowing a field of knowledge, lets take cooking, and how to use a tool, lets say a knife. While you can learn a lot about how to use a knife by going to culinary school much of the knife and the process surrounding what makes a good knife, good and bad knife, bad is very specific knowledge. The analogy kinda falls apart because you need to touch on the topics and metallurgy and industrial process but hopefully that paints a reasonable pictures. Linux is a tool, a very complicated tool with specific features. CS/SE/IS education is a very general set of skill which should apply across not just Linux but most/all of computing.
RIMR 11y ago
Jack is what forced me to from a beginner to an intermediate Linux user as a teenager, and I still don't understand it.
CyberDildonics 11y ago
Why would a latency of 2ms be considered good unless it was for packets traveling across a country?
- catwell 11y ago
  He is talking about (worst-case) scheduling latency. See https://lwn.net/Articles/404993/ https://lwn.net/Articles/404993/.

i336_ 11y ago

I once had a brief conversation (via Reddit) with a guy using JACK for a commercial (embedded Linux) networked audio system. I wasn't aware of the exact specifics but I understand it was Sonos-style, embedded boards inside speakers. He wasn't particularly interested in talking about the work his team had done :P I think that proves your point.

golergka 11y ago
> He wasn't particularly interested in talking about the work his team had done :P As in, he tried to keep the secrets secret, or it seemed to be trivial and uninteresting to him?
- anentropic 11y ago
  more likely the former
cpach 11y ago
This is a quite paradoxal phenomen that happens to some open source projects. The code is open and free, but some of the experts hold their knowledge very close to their chest. It's totally understandable since they of course need to make a living somehow, but it kind of defeats some of the benefits with open source.
- eitland 11y ago
  Roughly speaking it levels the playing field. With Open Source smart people and companies that attract smart people get an edge.
  - cpach 11y ago
    Good point! But the hazard is that the we risk getting FOSS software that is unnecessarily complex to configure because of this.
    - eitland 11y ago
      In my experience proprietary software is often far more complex, in fact in another league than most FOSS SW for now (source: have installed and reinstalled so many Oracle databases, Enterprise Manager and APEX installations I have lost count.)
      - creshal 11y ago
        Depends on the software and author. Case in point: sendmail; virtually everything ever made by RedHat (the software is free, but there's no useful documentation if you're not a paying customer… cf. NetworkManager, PulseAudio, GlusterFS … only systemd seems an exception, for now).
        cpach 11y ago
        Good point! However, I would agree that server/system software that is "best-in-breed" tend to be FOSS. But I'm afraid I have no studies or other hard facts to support my case.
    - cobweb 11y ago
      Configuration can be a pain. Sane defaults help and smart UIs help not to mention good documentation. I've been playing with some software over the last week that has wiki for documentation and an active user forum with people willing to help. But it's completely disordered and incredibly hard to discover. Half the battle with usability is making it easy to use and understand.
- zapu 11y ago
  Some contracts are worded very... weirdly, so to speak, which makes talking about projects potentially dangerous.
- mseebach 11y ago
  It doesn't have to be ill will, or even will. Something like JACK is a component of a system. Maintaining this component as open source is fairly simple -- but capturing and sharing the understanding the complex interplay of components and the tradeoff needed to achieve certain ends in the wider system is really, really hard. Linux might be free and open source software, but it's not a failure of anything that it doesn't come with a free systems administrator education.
- nwmcsween 11y ago
  I don't think it's such that the person in question doesn't want to share the knowledge, it's that imparting the knowledge is time consuming and draining.

rifung 11y ago

Pretty sure even most people with CS degrees could not configure Linux. It's pretty specialized knowledge as far as I can tell.

zxcvcxz 11y ago
>Pretty sure even most people with CS degrees could not configure Linux. It certainly does not take a degree of any kind to "configure Linux". Not even if you're below average IQ.
- robertely 11y ago
  Has nothing to do with intelligence. This is just a different knowledge domain, and there is shockingly little overlap with a traditional CS education.
  - Royalaid 11y ago
    To expand on this, its the difference between knowing a field of knowledge, lets take cooking, and how to use a tool, lets say a knife. While you can learn a lot about how to use a knife by going to culinary school much of the knife and the process surrounding what makes a good knife, good and bad knife, bad is very specific knowledge. The analogy kinda falls apart because you need to touch on the topics and metallurgy and industrial process but hopefully that paints a reasonable pictures. Linux is a tool, a very complicated tool with specific features. CS/SE/IS education is a very general set of skill which should apply across not just Linux but most/all of computing.

RIMR 11y ago

Jack is what forced me to from a beginner to an intermediate Linux user as a teenager, and I still don't understand it.

CyberDildonics 11y ago

Why would a latency of 2ms be considered good unless it was for packets traveling across a country?

catwell 11y ago
He is talking about (worst-case) scheduling latency. See https://lwn.net/Articles/404993/ https://lwn.net/Articles/404993/.