3 ms·

I really wish Apple would start using something like json or yaml. I hate plists.

by brazzledazzle 11y ago

ams6110 11y ago
json and yaml didn't exist in the late 1980s when NEXTSTEP was developed.
- setpatchaddress 11y ago
  Nor in the late 90's when the modern property list format was devised.
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  I'm not saying they made a bad choice.
- donatj 11y ago
  It is also no longer the 1980s and hasn't been for a while now.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    Right -- it's simply legacy. Too much work to change it now for not enough benefit. In 20 years we'll say the same thing about json and yaml. In fact I say it about yaml now.
- to3m 11y ago
  Nor did x64... but did that stop them?
jacobolus 11y ago
Plain-text plists are basically a slightly more cleanly formatted JSON with support for comments. Binary plists are just a binary version of the same, but with some additional data types which were never backported to the plain text format. Nobody should “hate” either of them who doesn’t equally hate JSON and e.g. MessagePack. XML plists are a trainwreck and should never have existed. YAML and JSON and property lists are all terrible formats (inflexible and underpowered, forcing people to add half-baked ad hoc extensions on top to do almost anything). I wish they would all go die in a fire in favor of something with better data structures and support for extension such as e.g. EDN.
- eropple 11y ago
  JSON isn't great--I use YAML for anything where I'm not in Ruby where I can just use a DSL--but they, and even well-thought-out XML, have the advantage of being usable by normal people. I have yet to see EDN that both didn't require a significant amount of work to set up and didn't look downright offensive. (Usually it's both.)
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  I didn't know plain-text plists existed. The only ones I've dealt with have been the XML and binary lists. Apparently json ones do too. I'm wondering how much OS X supports them now.
bro-stick 11y ago
yaml is a disaster. json or toml.

I really wish Apple would start using something like json or yaml. I hate plists.

ams6110 11y ago

json and yaml didn't exist in the late 1980s when NEXTSTEP was developed.

setpatchaddress 11y ago
Nor in the late 90's when the modern property list format was devised.
brazzledazzle 11y ago
I'm not saying they made a bad choice.
donatj 11y ago
It is also no longer the 1980s and hasn't been for a while now.
- ams6110 11y ago
  Right -- it's simply legacy. Too much work to change it now for not enough benefit. In 20 years we'll say the same thing about json and yaml. In fact I say it about yaml now.
to3m 11y ago
Nor did x64... but did that stop them?

jacobolus 11y ago

Plain-text plists are basically a slightly more cleanly formatted JSON with support for comments. Binary plists are just a binary version of the same, but with some additional data types which were never backported to the plain text format. Nobody should “hate” either of them who doesn’t equally hate JSON and e.g. MessagePack. XML plists are a trainwreck and should never have existed. YAML and JSON and property lists are all terrible formats (inflexible and underpowered, forcing people to add half-baked ad hoc extensions on top to do almost anything). I wish they would all go die in a fire in favor of something with better data structures and support for extension such as e.g. EDN.

eropple 11y ago
JSON isn't great--I use YAML for anything where I'm not in Ruby where I can just use a DSL--but they, and even well-thought-out XML, have the advantage of being usable by normal people. I have yet to see EDN that both didn't require a significant amount of work to set up and didn't look downright offensive. (Usually it's both.)
brazzledazzle 11y ago
I didn't know plain-text plists existed. The only ones I've dealt with have been the XML and binary lists. Apparently json ones do too. I'm wondering how much OS X supports them now.

bro-stick 11y ago

yaml is a disaster. json or toml.