7 ms·

One of the very first posts I wrote on my personal blog in 2007 was about Dweck's "Fixed Mindset vs Growth Mindset" (based on a graphic by Nigel Holmes): http:

One of the very first posts I wrote on my personal blog in 2007 was about Dweck's "Fixed Mindset vs Growth Mindset" (based on a graphic by Nigel Holmes): http://michaelgr.com/2007/04/15/fixed-mindset-vs-growth-mindset-which-one-are-you/ http://michaelgr.com/2007/04/15/fixed-mindset-vs-growth-mind... Still one of the most popular posts there. I really wish this concept was taught to young children. I bet it could really make a difference.

decode 17y ago
I took an electricity class at the local community college last year. The teacher spent about 20 minutes of the first lecture doing exactly this. He presented a basic model of the brain where mental effort creates new connections in the brain and actually physically changes the form of the brain. The summary was that even if we thought we didn't have the mental ability for the course at the start, long-term effort would turn us into people with that mental ability. I wondered if he was familiar with some of this research. And also whether it made a difference in class performance.
amichail 17y ago
Yes, it could lead to disaster. Encouraging children to aim beyond their means is a very bad idea. They will have very ambitious goals and will not settle for what they consider beneath them. This is a recipe for unemployment in the vast majority of cases.
- 10ren 17y ago
  The assumption is to achieve big goals in small steps. The growth mindset is that they can get better at these small steps. e.g. I bet I can improve at adding! For children, you wouldn't expect them to break down their big overwhelming goals into small subtasks for themselves - you'd do that for them. You wouldn't even mention the big overwhelming goals, or indeed necessarily even have them. Same goes for adults - except we've got to break it down ourselves.
- siculars 17y ago
  My father is a teacher. To this day he still says: "Nothing succeeds like success or fails like failure." Meaning children need positive reinforcement to help achieve goals that are slightly beyond their reach. Once they succeed they will most likely continue to do so.
  - bitwize 17y ago
    No cat is long like Longcat.
- MartinCron 17y ago
  How exactly do you know a child's means are, especially in the face of science that the brain's ability is malleable? There's a huge difference between saying "You don't seem to be very good at math, why don't you stop trying and do something easy instead" and "This seems to be hard for you, keep working hard at it and it will get easier over time. A brain is like a muscle, it gets stronger when you use it"
  - amichail 17y ago
    What is the extent of this malleability? It's probably quite small compared to innate intelligence.
    - ewanmcteagle 17y ago
      In either case since you don't know what it is how much should you assume the child is not capable of?
      - amichail 17y ago
        It's all about risk. There is no scientific consensus that the brain is malleable in any significant way. Aiming within one's apparent means will likely result in employment.
        theblackbox 17y ago
        It's the tepid nature of this statement that I am most against. Despite the fact it's also just downright wrong - the malleability of the brain is close to miraculous and studied heavily in many areas of science. Rats that are kept in cages devoid of adornment have smaller, less dense, brains than rats that have toys and varied sonsory stimulation. It's simple, the more things we have with which to think, the better and more complex our thinking can be. Think Orwell's Newspeak and Herman Hesse's Glass bead games. What is awful here is that you seem to be convinced that mediocrity is a worthwhile tactic for people and for children... and I think this rips the heart from the very idea of what it means to be alive and better oneself.
- theblackbox 17y ago
  We learn by failure, coddling a child within it's abilities is anethema to creating independent, curious, creative people, that can challenge themselves and know thier limits. .... ugh, I feel a blog post or some poetic vitriol coming on.
  - amichail 17y ago
    Encouraging a child to aim significantly higher is sort of like encouraging someone to pursue startups. Failure is the result in most cases. It's worse with children though because it is hard for them to "undo" their excessive ambition as adults.
    - weavejester 17y ago
      Surely the answer is to think short-term, and keep aiming a little higher than your previous best. I'm not sure children are very good at thinking long-term, anyway.
    - theblackbox 17y ago
      The comparison is flawed due to the failure to realise these are children! Who cares if they fail? If they do, they shouldn't - that's the lesson. If you do, they will - you're a poor teacher.
      - MikeCapone 17y ago
        The point is not about failing or succeeding, it's about having a mindset that allows you to make efforts and improve, rather than believe that you can't change things and just give up.
    - TrevorJ 17y ago
      Failure is necessary to success. You learn more from it, and it teaches patience. I'm glad I was allowed to fail a lot as child, I credit it with making me who I am today.
    - theBobMcCormick 17y ago
- timwiseman 17y ago
  I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree very strongly here. First, it seems that it is by being ambitious and trying to do hard things that we as humans improve. I would rather try to do something hard and fail than set out to do something easy and succeed. Also, often failing at something hard will result in something short of your goal but still far better than you would have gotten by going for the easy goal. Second, it is very hard to know what your means or someone elses means are, or even what is possible. A great many things that people used to think were impossible have been achieved. And finally: They will have very ambitious goals and will not settle for what they consider beneath them. First, most people will eventually settle if they hit repeated failure (but perhaps settle for more than they would have gotten by aiming low...). I know one person who dreamed of acting and is now programming, whether this is "settling" is debatable, but it wasn't their stated goal. If a person truly refuses to settle, then they have a couple of choices: 1. They can refuse to give up and keep trying without end. This can be good. They may eventually succeed, and even if they won't, they will probably get further than they would by settling. 2. They can try to cheat and use unethical means to get what they want. But the answer to this one is not to make them less ambitious, but to help make the children more moral so they will never resort to this and stick with #1. 3. They can give up in some extreme way such as living on welfare or ending their own life. But I don't think many ambitious people will take this route, and again the answer is not make the children less ambitous but to make them more moral and more stable so they would stick with #1. In short, I think it is a very good idea to encourage children to be ambitious and work to improve themselves.
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  The only way to achieve great things is to have ambitious goals. To put it another way, are the many HN articles about starting your own business encouraging potential entrepreneurs to reach "beyond their means"? Who is to decide what another persons "means" are? How do you know? I ask this in all seriousness, because to my knowledge there's been very little success in finding any early childhood characteristics that have a strong positive correlation to adult success. If I'm incorrect on that I'd love to see some links to studies that do show that adult success can be pre-judged in childhood with a high degree of accuracy. Besides, as Thomas Edison supposedly said.. "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration". By encouraging children to pursue very ambitious goals and to NOT settle for what they consider beneath them, perhaps we can help them to develop the drive needed for that 99% perspiration.
  - abstractbill 17y ago
    ...to my knowledge there's been very little success in finding any early childhood characteristics that have a strong positive correlation to adult success... The Stanford Marshmallow study is one that springs to mind - delayed gratification in children correlates strongly with adult success: http://www.sybervision.com/Discipline/marshmallow.htm http://www.sybervision.com/Discipline/marshmallow.htm Of course, one of the really interesting conclusions of that study was that children can improve their capacity for delayed gratification through practice.
- foulmouthboy 17y ago
  Do you realize what you're saying? Starting at birth, the entire learning process is trying to achieve things that one isn't currently capable of. Taking what you wrote at face value, children should never even go to school if they haven't already learned everything they intend to learn.
messel 17y ago
Both your share and the original were fantastic posts. Loved the worldview and how it can shape future successes. Life is beta testing ;). Happy to have shared them on my twitter stream @victusfate, look me up anytime.
Slashed 17y ago
May I ask you for permission to translate this article to Russian? I'll drop you a link.
- Slashed 17y ago
  Well, here's the link to translation on Google Docs: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddg3849f_19kq9rz6gv http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddg3849f_19kq9rz6gv I've posted it on my LiveJournal blog with pointing to your article and my translation on Google Docs, here: http://vslashed.livejournal.com/9110.html http://vslashed.livejournal.com/9110.html
- MikeCapone 17y ago
  Go for it. Since I've never been translated to Russian before, could you drop me the URL once it's up? There's a "contact" page on my site (from the homepage, on the right). Thanks!

decode 17y ago

I took an electricity class at the local community college last year. The teacher spent about 20 minutes of the first lecture doing exactly this. He presented a basic model of the brain where mental effort creates new connections in the brain and actually physically changes the form of the brain. The summary was that even if we thought we didn't have the mental ability for the course at the start, long-term effort would turn us into people with that mental ability. I wondered if he was familiar with some of this research. And also whether it made a difference in class performance.

amichail 17y ago

Yes, it could lead to disaster. Encouraging children to aim beyond their means is a very bad idea. They will have very ambitious goals and will not settle for what they consider beneath them. This is a recipe for unemployment in the vast majority of cases.

10ren 17y ago
The assumption is to achieve big goals in small steps. The growth mindset is that they can get better at these small steps. e.g. I bet I can improve at adding! For children, you wouldn't expect them to break down their big overwhelming goals into small subtasks for themselves - you'd do that for them. You wouldn't even mention the big overwhelming goals, or indeed necessarily even have them. Same goes for adults - except we've got to break it down ourselves.
siculars 17y ago
My father is a teacher. To this day he still says: "Nothing succeeds like success or fails like failure." Meaning children need positive reinforcement to help achieve goals that are slightly beyond their reach. Once they succeed they will most likely continue to do so.
- bitwize 17y ago
  No cat is long like Longcat.
MartinCron 17y ago
How exactly do you know a child's means are, especially in the face of science that the brain's ability is malleable? There's a huge difference between saying "You don't seem to be very good at math, why don't you stop trying and do something easy instead" and "This seems to be hard for you, keep working hard at it and it will get easier over time. A brain is like a muscle, it gets stronger when you use it"
- amichail 17y ago
  What is the extent of this malleability? It's probably quite small compared to innate intelligence.
  - ewanmcteagle 17y ago
    In either case since you don't know what it is how much should you assume the child is not capable of?
    - amichail 17y ago
      It's all about risk. There is no scientific consensus that the brain is malleable in any significant way. Aiming within one's apparent means will likely result in employment.
      - theblackbox 17y ago
        It's the tepid nature of this statement that I am most against. Despite the fact it's also just downright wrong - the malleability of the brain is close to miraculous and studied heavily in many areas of science. Rats that are kept in cages devoid of adornment have smaller, less dense, brains than rats that have toys and varied sonsory stimulation. It's simple, the more things we have with which to think, the better and more complex our thinking can be. Think Orwell's Newspeak and Herman Hesse's Glass bead games. What is awful here is that you seem to be convinced that mediocrity is a worthwhile tactic for people and for children... and I think this rips the heart from the very idea of what it means to be alive and better oneself.
theblackbox 17y ago
We learn by failure, coddling a child within it's abilities is anethema to creating independent, curious, creative people, that can challenge themselves and know thier limits. .... ugh, I feel a blog post or some poetic vitriol coming on.
- amichail 17y ago
  Encouraging a child to aim significantly higher is sort of like encouraging someone to pursue startups. Failure is the result in most cases. It's worse with children though because it is hard for them to "undo" their excessive ambition as adults.
  - weavejester 17y ago
    Surely the answer is to think short-term, and keep aiming a little higher than your previous best. I'm not sure children are very good at thinking long-term, anyway.
  - theblackbox 17y ago
    The comparison is flawed due to the failure to realise these are children! Who cares if they fail? If they do, they shouldn't - that's the lesson. If you do, they will - you're a poor teacher.
    - MikeCapone 17y ago
      The point is not about failing or succeeding, it's about having a mindset that allows you to make efforts and improve, rather than believe that you can't change things and just give up.
  - TrevorJ 17y ago
    Failure is necessary to success. You learn more from it, and it teaches patience. I'm glad I was allowed to fail a lot as child, I credit it with making me who I am today.
  - theBobMcCormick 17y ago
timwiseman 17y ago
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree very strongly here. First, it seems that it is by being ambitious and trying to do hard things that we as humans improve. I would rather try to do something hard and fail than set out to do something easy and succeed. Also, often failing at something hard will result in something short of your goal but still far better than you would have gotten by going for the easy goal. Second, it is very hard to know what your means or someone elses means are, or even what is possible. A great many things that people used to think were impossible have been achieved. And finally: They will have very ambitious goals and will not settle for what they consider beneath them. First, most people will eventually settle if they hit repeated failure (but perhaps settle for more than they would have gotten by aiming low...). I know one person who dreamed of acting and is now programming, whether this is "settling" is debatable, but it wasn't their stated goal. If a person truly refuses to settle, then they have a couple of choices: 1. They can refuse to give up and keep trying without end. This can be good. They may eventually succeed, and even if they won't, they will probably get further than they would by settling. 2. They can try to cheat and use unethical means to get what they want. But the answer to this one is not to make them less ambitious, but to help make the children more moral so they will never resort to this and stick with #1. 3. They can give up in some extreme way such as living on welfare or ending their own life. But I don't think many ambitious people will take this route, and again the answer is not make the children less ambitous but to make them more moral and more stable so they would stick with #1. In short, I think it is a very good idea to encourage children to be ambitious and work to improve themselves.
theBobMcCormick 17y ago
The only way to achieve great things is to have ambitious goals. To put it another way, are the many HN articles about starting your own business encouraging potential entrepreneurs to reach "beyond their means"? Who is to decide what another persons "means" are? How do you know? I ask this in all seriousness, because to my knowledge there's been very little success in finding any early childhood characteristics that have a strong positive correlation to adult success. If I'm incorrect on that I'd love to see some links to studies that do show that adult success can be pre-judged in childhood with a high degree of accuracy. Besides, as Thomas Edison supposedly said.. "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration". By encouraging children to pursue very ambitious goals and to NOT settle for what they consider beneath them, perhaps we can help them to develop the drive needed for that 99% perspiration.
- abstractbill 17y ago
  ...to my knowledge there's been very little success in finding any early childhood characteristics that have a strong positive correlation to adult success... The Stanford Marshmallow study is one that springs to mind - delayed gratification in children correlates strongly with adult success: http://www.sybervision.com/Discipline/marshmallow.htm http://www.sybervision.com/Discipline/marshmallow.htm Of course, one of the really interesting conclusions of that study was that children can improve their capacity for delayed gratification through practice.
foulmouthboy 17y ago
Do you realize what you're saying? Starting at birth, the entire learning process is trying to achieve things that one isn't currently capable of. Taking what you wrote at face value, children should never even go to school if they haven't already learned everything they intend to learn.

messel 17y ago

Both your share and the original were fantastic posts. Loved the worldview and how it can shape future successes. Life is beta testing ;). Happy to have shared them on my twitter stream @victusfate, look me up anytime.

Slashed 17y ago

May I ask you for permission to translate this article to Russian? I'll drop you a link.

Slashed 17y ago
Well, here's the link to translation on Google Docs: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddg3849f_19kq9rz6gv http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddg3849f_19kq9rz6gv I've posted it on my LiveJournal blog with pointing to your article and my translation on Google Docs, here: http://vslashed.livejournal.com/9110.html http://vslashed.livejournal.com/9110.html
MikeCapone 17y ago
Go for it. Since I've never been translated to Russian before, could you drop me the URL once it's up? There's a "contact" page on my site (from the homepage, on the right). Thanks!