4 ms·

Assuming that I will always move on to another own house, and not a rented one.

logfromblammo 11y ago
I'm never buying again. If they want me to sink 30 years of my life into monthly payments, I'm going to need a job that will last for at least 30 years of steady paychecks. And I don't believe those actually exist any more. Also, I no longer trust the justice system to protect my rights as a property owner. Having been primed by software-based DRM to not want to buy something unless I can truly own it, I find that land property in the US is often heavily encumbered with covenants, regulations, local ordinances, mortgage terms, and recurring taxes, to the point where it feels like paying rent and signing a lease feels less restrictive.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Takes all kinds. I bought my place after 20 years of payments, on a dozen different jobs. Had savings, so 'between jobs' didn't impact mortgage payments. And I'm out in the county, where if they have zoning rules, there sure as heck aren't any inspectors. So I do as I please. Feels pretty unencumbered to me!
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    I have been burnt twice on home ownership, and didn't enjoy the pain. Other people will have different experiences. I do know for certain that I will never sign another mortgage for as long as I live. Those lenders can go FOADIAF.
- Scarblac 11y ago
  > I'm never buying again. If they want me to sink 30 years of my life into monthly payments, I'm going to need a job that will last for at least 30 years of steady paychecks. I don't get this. If you rent instead, you'll just be sinking monthly payments into that (maybe more, maybe less than with buying). And there's no need for a job that lasts 30 years, you just need to keep the ability to make the payment every month. But that is also true when renting.
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    You don't understand, because you have probably just done the math on paper, rather than lived it. Anecdotally, I have realized more value per dollar spent on rented homes than on purchased homes. If I had never purchased a home in the past, renting instead, I believe without a shred of doubt that I would have a greater net worth today. I cannot make a rational case for home purchase now, because I cannot guarantee so many years of steady paychecks within an acceptable commuting radius of any home I could buy. Look back 30 years before now, to 1985. How many jobs existed then in the U.S. that no longer exist now? Do you think you can predict what the job market will look like in 2045? If your job was to make buggy whips, would you feel safe making a 30-year financial commitment in 1890? Perhaps, but the Ford Model T came in 1908. Technology develops faster now. I get the impression that jobs that don't even exist this year may become obsolete before 30 years elapse, and yet employers still routinely hire based on specific experience rather than aptitude or trainability. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that I will never take on debt to buy a home again, and I don't expect to ever be able to afford to buy anything without doing so.
    - Scarblac 11y ago
      Fair enough. I'm lucky to live in a small country.
    - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
      It's a bit more complicated than what you're presenting. Let's say I'm a buggy whip maker in 1890. I buy a house. 1908 comes, and I'm out of a job. I can't afford the house. But if I'm living in a town that wasn't too dependent on the buggy whip factory, then there are probably people who are looking to buy houses, so I'm still able to get out of the house without losing my shirt. The problem comes when the town's economy crashed (because the buggy whip factory was the big business), or the nation's economy crashes (recession/depression/downturn/whatever), and I have to sell my house. Then I can really get burned. And the next problem: When I buy a house, I can't be sure what the economic environment will be when I need to sell it. I would say that, over the long haul, if you live in a town where there's enough variety of employment that you can probably continue to find work even if you lose your current job, most of the time owning your own house is a net win. (Be sure to hear all the caveats in that sentence!)

I'm never buying again. If they want me to sink 30 years of my life into monthly payments, I'm going to need a job that will last for at least 30 years of steady paychecks. And I don't believe those actually exist any more. Also, I no longer trust the justice system to protect my rights as a property owner. Having been primed by software-based DRM to not want to buy something unless I can truly own it, I find that land property in the US is often heavily encumbered with covenants, regulations, local ordinances, mortgage terms, and recurring taxes, to the point where it feels like paying rent and signing a lease feels less restrictive.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Takes all kinds. I bought my place after 20 years of payments, on a dozen different jobs. Had savings, so 'between jobs' didn't impact mortgage payments. And I'm out in the county, where if they have zoning rules, there sure as heck aren't any inspectors. So I do as I please. Feels pretty unencumbered to me!
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  I have been burnt twice on home ownership, and didn't enjoy the pain. Other people will have different experiences. I do know for certain that I will never sign another mortgage for as long as I live. Those lenders can go FOADIAF.
Scarblac 11y ago
> I'm never buying again. If they want me to sink 30 years of my life into monthly payments, I'm going to need a job that will last for at least 30 years of steady paychecks. I don't get this. If you rent instead, you'll just be sinking monthly payments into that (maybe more, maybe less than with buying). And there's no need for a job that lasts 30 years, you just need to keep the ability to make the payment every month. But that is also true when renting.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  You don't understand, because you have probably just done the math on paper, rather than lived it. Anecdotally, I have realized more value per dollar spent on rented homes than on purchased homes. If I had never purchased a home in the past, renting instead, I believe without a shred of doubt that I would have a greater net worth today. I cannot make a rational case for home purchase now, because I cannot guarantee so many years of steady paychecks within an acceptable commuting radius of any home I could buy. Look back 30 years before now, to 1985. How many jobs existed then in the U.S. that no longer exist now? Do you think you can predict what the job market will look like in 2045? If your job was to make buggy whips, would you feel safe making a 30-year financial commitment in 1890? Perhaps, but the Ford Model T came in 1908. Technology develops faster now. I get the impression that jobs that don't even exist this year may become obsolete before 30 years elapse, and yet employers still routinely hire based on specific experience rather than aptitude or trainability. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that I will never take on debt to buy a home again, and I don't expect to ever be able to afford to buy anything without doing so.
  - Scarblac 11y ago
    Fair enough. I'm lucky to live in a small country.
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    It's a bit more complicated than what you're presenting. Let's say I'm a buggy whip maker in 1890. I buy a house. 1908 comes, and I'm out of a job. I can't afford the house. But if I'm living in a town that wasn't too dependent on the buggy whip factory, then there are probably people who are looking to buy houses, so I'm still able to get out of the house without losing my shirt. The problem comes when the town's economy crashed (because the buggy whip factory was the big business), or the nation's economy crashes (recession/depression/downturn/whatever), and I have to sell my house. Then I can really get burned. And the next problem: When I buy a house, I can't be sure what the economic environment will be when I need to sell it. I would say that, over the long haul, if you live in a town where there's enough variety of employment that you can probably continue to find work even if you lose your current job, most of the time owning your own house is a net win. (Be sure to hear all the caveats in that sentence!)