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I think a lot of us would trade long distance calling and Internet access for the ability to go to college without being indebted for life, find a job that didn

I think a lot of us would trade long distance calling and Internet access for the ability to go to college without being indebted for life, find a job that didn't make you work at home after hours or on the weekends, and be able to afford a house to maintain and leave for their children. Being able to afford a new iPhone every other year is not prosperity.

yummyfajitas 11y ago
I wouldn't trade an MRI and micro-lumbar discectomy for a house. Would you give up all medicine invented since 1970 if you could pay 1970 prices? Also, the average price of college is <1 year of an average college grad earnings (according to a quick Google search). If you are indebted for life because of this, its your own fault. More people than ever before own houses, and much larger ones than in the past. Your complaints don't seem to fit reality.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  >If you are indebted for life because of this, its your own fault. So you managed to pay off a college degree with no parental support, no scholarships, no grants, no subsidized federal loans, and at an interest rate of 4%+? What's your secret? Be born before the 90s?
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    If you consume only 50% of what you earn, you can pay it off in 2-3 years. I consume far less than 50% of what I earn.
    - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
      Good for you that you can exert self-discipline and have a high paying job. The rest of us have trouble finding work after graduation (engineers with masters degrees that can't find anything more than 45k) or are paid so poorly that they have no hope of ever paying off their loans (teachers in my high school were still paying their loans in their 50s and 60s, mostly because they wanted to procreate and housing in my town is very expensive). Or maybe you're right. Maybe it is their fault entirely. Maybe if it's too expensive to be a teacher, nobody should train to be one. Maybe if it's too expensive to have children, then nobody should have offspring. "Just be as perfect as me" is poor social policy. At best, it's merely smug advice.
      - yummyfajitas 11y ago
        People live on $20k, so that engineer can certainly pay down his loan in a few years. He is just unwilling to consume as little as his parents did.
        AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        More: he is just unwilling to consume as little as his parents did at the same stage of life. That is, I never saw what my parents' life was like just after they graduated from college. When I was born, they were several years past that. When I was old enough to remember much, they were pretty much into their peak earning phase. If I expect that lifestyle just after graduating from college, yes, I'm going to have a lot of trouble paying down college loans...
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        rmxt 11y ago
        Is it too far-fetched to conceive that there might only be sub-optimal decisions to choose from for some people? Not saying that this is strictly the case for all people, but I certainly can imagine that there are some for whom "parental support, scholarships, grants and subsidized federal loans" are hard to come by. In that case, is it still completely the fault of the individual? What do you suggest that these people do instead of taking out -- what a financially-aware person knows to be -- a bad loan?
  - cryoshon 11y ago
    Psst... interest rates on some federal student loans are 7%, and can go much higher for private loans.
modoc 11y ago
Obviously just one anecdote but my parents both had work/on-call in the evenings and weekends, always had a substantial mortgage on the house which they had to sell when they split up. I will get zero inheritance. They are both college educated, smart, hard working people. I made more at 20 years old, then they both made put together at that same time.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  I grew up on a farm, limited income but lots of personal freedom. Six of us kids: 5 Engineers and a Nurse. After 1000 generations of dirt farmers, it was a good change. No inheritance except the opportunity to personally succeed. Folks like us were launched by their parents. But there are others who stayed about where they started (or rather their parents) who can't see much improvement in the last 20 years.
  - ForHackernews 11y ago
    When (if) you retire, that farmland will probably be worth more than your income over your entire career.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Very likely. The $40,000 acreage next to me just sold for $400,000. That would make mine worth $1M right now!

yummyfajitas 11y ago

I wouldn't trade an MRI and micro-lumbar discectomy for a house. Would you give up all medicine invented since 1970 if you could pay 1970 prices? Also, the average price of college is <1 year of an average college grad earnings (according to a quick Google search). If you are indebted for life because of this, its your own fault. More people than ever before own houses, and much larger ones than in the past. Your complaints don't seem to fit reality.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
>If you are indebted for life because of this, its your own fault. So you managed to pay off a college degree with no parental support, no scholarships, no grants, no subsidized federal loans, and at an interest rate of 4%+? What's your secret? Be born before the 90s?
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  If you consume only 50% of what you earn, you can pay it off in 2-3 years. I consume far less than 50% of what I earn.
  - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
    Good for you that you can exert self-discipline and have a high paying job. The rest of us have trouble finding work after graduation (engineers with masters degrees that can't find anything more than 45k) or are paid so poorly that they have no hope of ever paying off their loans (teachers in my high school were still paying their loans in their 50s and 60s, mostly because they wanted to procreate and housing in my town is very expensive). Or maybe you're right. Maybe it is their fault entirely. Maybe if it's too expensive to be a teacher, nobody should train to be one. Maybe if it's too expensive to have children, then nobody should have offspring. "Just be as perfect as me" is poor social policy. At best, it's merely smug advice.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      People live on $20k, so that engineer can certainly pay down his loan in a few years. He is just unwilling to consume as little as his parents did.
      - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        More: he is just unwilling to consume as little as his parents did at the same stage of life. That is, I never saw what my parents' life was like just after they graduated from college. When I was born, they were several years past that. When I was old enough to remember much, they were pretty much into their peak earning phase. If I expect that lifestyle just after graduating from college, yes, I'm going to have a lot of trouble paying down college loans...
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
      - rmxt 11y ago
        Is it too far-fetched to conceive that there might only be sub-optimal decisions to choose from for some people? Not saying that this is strictly the case for all people, but I certainly can imagine that there are some for whom "parental support, scholarships, grants and subsidized federal loans" are hard to come by. In that case, is it still completely the fault of the individual? What do you suggest that these people do instead of taking out -- what a financially-aware person knows to be -- a bad loan?
- cryoshon 11y ago
  Psst... interest rates on some federal student loans are 7%, and can go much higher for private loans.

modoc 11y ago

Obviously just one anecdote but my parents both had work/on-call in the evenings and weekends, always had a substantial mortgage on the house which they had to sell when they split up. I will get zero inheritance. They are both college educated, smart, hard working people. I made more at 20 years old, then they both made put together at that same time.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
I grew up on a farm, limited income but lots of personal freedom. Six of us kids: 5 Engineers and a Nurse. After 1000 generations of dirt farmers, it was a good change. No inheritance except the opportunity to personally succeed. Folks like us were launched by their parents. But there are others who stayed about where they started (or rather their parents) who can't see much improvement in the last 20 years.
- ForHackernews 11y ago
  When (if) you retire, that farmland will probably be worth more than your income over your entire career.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Very likely. The $40,000 acreage next to me just sold for $400,000. That would make mine worth $1M right now!