6 ms·

My Family Came to This Country Legally, but Were Almost Deported

69 points by gedrap 11y ago

dudul 11y ago
Disgusting. I had to deal with the INS myself to get a visa, and later a green card. Thank God I didn't experience a tenth of what the author describes and I can still say that this "machinery" is incredibly dysfunctional.
pkaye 11y ago
I don't understand the $45K for the 3 green cards. Right now it costs maybe $1500 to process one green card application with the complexity of tax form. You can definitely do it yourself though a lawyer may add another $2000 to help you out. Back 10-20 years ago everything was probably half the amount. Also as I understand, H1B based green cards are sponsored by the employer?
- viraptor 11y ago
  Maybe it's the difference between "Right now it costs..." and what it cost in 1995? Also it's not clear if it's expedited with the lawyer, or was there some program to actually get it expedited with immigration - that could cost extra.
- jquery 11y ago
  If you read between the lines, it appears the author's father was bribing an INS official, albeit he claims his father did it unknowingly.
  - johnloeber 11y ago
    Since when does "if you read between the lines" mean "infer the exact opposite of what the author stated"? The author wrote that his father ended up being a key witness to convict Daniel Lee. The story clearly states that the green cards were legally obtained through the father's work (see fourth paragraph).
    - jquery 11y ago
      Sounds like his father had a lot of interaction with Daniel Lee. "Everyone in here is innocent, you know that?" - Red, The Shawshank Redemption EDIT: Can't reply to the child comment. But we only have one side of the story here. At best it seems his father was a fool and it's hard to trust the word of a fool.
      - jacobolus 11y ago
        New immigrants who don’t know how to navigate a complex and hostile legal system are a pretty ripe customer base for fraudsters. Just because a scheme seems to a knowledgeable observer to be too good to be true doesn’t make it okay to blame the victims of such frauds.
        jquery 11y ago
        Victim of fraud or not, how should the INS have handled it differently? If someone at your company is found trading job offers to unqualified people for money, should those unqualified people keep the jobs? Of course not. What if those unqualified people used an intermediary to proffer the bribe? Doesn't change anything. Sad story all around for the victim of fraud. That's why they are called a victim. Being a victim sucks and is nothing to be proud of.
- tn13 11y ago
  I have a hard time understanding this part as well, but from what I see, immigration to USA is so fucked up that the boundaries of what is legal and illegal have got far too blurred to make sense for someone who is not very familiar with all processes. For example H1B and F1 visas require that you have clear intention of going back. How many people actually want to go back given a shot at PR ? I do not think his father bribed a government official is a correct. His father hired someone who under a legal contract agreed to help his father in exchange of money. For example I might hire a doctor for kidney transplant. If the doctor kills someone to get the kidney that is not really my problem.
pandemicsyn 11y ago
Meh, they started proceedings to deport me over a year after I got my citizenship. tl;dr I moved a few months after getting my citizenship and the INS didn't realize I had become a citizen and got irritated that I didn't notify them of the move. The INS/DHS is hopeless.
- refurb 11y ago
  How did they know you moved? I moved a couple times and forgot to submit the change of address form. I did it retroactively, but nothing came of it.
  - pandemicsyn 11y ago
    I'm guessing it was when I filed my taxes the following year since that included my updated address.
viraptor 11y ago
Wouldn't it cost more to go through with deportation (and risk people going into hiding instead), rather than just process them with priority again? Then again, maybe it's too reasonable for strictly applied law?
erikb 11y ago
To some degree of people who have fought through this and came out alive. In a competitive situation with someone who got through that a lazy normal person like me would have no chance of survival.
nether 11y ago
I don't understand how people like my roommate got into the US with minimal funds and no degree. He's from a village in Russia and just came here on his own, and works as a barista about 30 hrs/week. No lawyers or anything. He's been here for eight years. He said he worked at a national park first, but overall said the process of getting here (and staying) was pretty easy.
- pkaye 11y ago
  It is hard to immigrate easily without an employer or family sponsorship. A few people get it through green card lottery. Some come on a tourist visa or education visa and then overstay.
- mikepavone 11y ago
  Perhaps he came here through the Diversity Immigrant Visa program (aka the green card lottery)? If you're a resident of one of the eligible countries it's just a matter of filling out a form and getting lucky.
- cjrp 11y ago
  Is he definitely there legally? I believe there are (or were) student work programs for 3-6 months, which grant you a Social Security Number. Theoretically you could stay and continue working with that SSN.
jquery 11y ago
I take issue with the title. His father bribed an INS official. Maybe unknowingly, but the author's excuses for his father don't completely wash. $45k for an "expedited" green card, in 1995? Come on, you know something shady is happening at that point. That's $70k+ in today's dollars. IANAL, but I think immigration generally operates under strict liability, not mens rea. So regardless of whether his father knew he fucked up, his father was at fault. Same way a chemical plant has to pay damages if it poisons the community, whether or not they intended to hurt anyone.
- EdwardDiego 11y ago
  > His father bribed an INS official Did you even read the article mate? > To get our green cards expedited, we paid $45,000 for legal services, fees, and documentation for the three of us to an immigration brokerage service. It was a herculean sum of money for poor immigrants like us, but the American immigration system was hopelessly complicated and confusing. This was my first experience with how expensive lawyers could be. His broker may have bribed the official, but his father most certainly did not. > 45k for an "expedited" green card, in 1995? 3 expedited green cards. > Come on, you know something shady is happening at that point. Based on what, his extensive experience of the US immigration system that he obtained in South Korea?
  - jquery 11y ago
    > Did you even read the article mate? Do you take everything at face value? > His broker may have bribed the official, but his father most certainly did not. Immigration is strict liability, so from the perspective of liability, his father did. > 45k for an "expedited" green card, in 1995? Good catch. I missed that. Makes me somewhat believe his father was just a fuck-up and not outright bribing. > Based on what, his extensive experience of the US immigration system that he obtained in South Korea? I don't know, based on maybe getting a second opinion before spending $45,000. Maybe based on the fact he'd spent years in Hong Kong and on H1-B. You don't need to know much about stereos to know you shouldn't buy them out of the back of a van. The author is quick to label his father an imbecile rather than a in-cahoots. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
treeonion 11y ago
My family came here legally as well, I was 10. Got stuck on I829, been renewing my permanent residency status every year for almost 18 years. Based on my home country's government records I'm not its citizen. I applied for U.S. military some time ago, but got denied due to depression I went through in college years. I'm a citizen of no country, and yet I love the U.S., I would die for no other country.
- PebblesHD 11y ago
  That is a very interesting situation to be in, do you have any concerns should your resident status get changed? What would you do if you were required to leave the US?
  - treeonion 11y ago
    Every year we visit USCIS to get our status renewed for another year, and it worries us every time we do so. There are times when inexperienced USCIS agents (who don't understand our status) refuse to renew our status, in such circumstances we have to make another appointment and simply hope to run into one who've seen us for years. After the disappearance of our lawyer (over a decade ago), we had no way of getting our hands on any case files, I wouldn't know how to fight it in court if we were required to leave the US. After my father's real-estate developer business went bankrupt in the early 2000s we were in a financial downward slope, pretty much to the point where we had to beg our family friends for money. Nothing was left after my father's passing, well by that time my brother and I had jobs, which was fortunate, although the school loans do hurt, I may have to save up some for the lawyer costs if it ever comes to that.
    - PebblesHD 11y ago
      Wow, that is indeed very precarious, my best wishes and i really do hope it never comes to you needing a lawyer. That sounds incredibly stressful especially when going to uni/college while dealing with it.
      - 11y ago
csours 11y ago
Perhaps I'm overly critical but, if > ... [T]he stench of stale coffee and rancid soda cans that I collected from office trash cans to help make ends meet. was the worst he had to deal with in a cleaning job, he had a very nice office to clean. I've cleaned up much worse in my office, and I do IT for a living.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
shalmanese 11y ago
The INS is what the IRS would look like if taxpayers couldn't vote.
tn13 11y ago
He believed that by “doing the right thing” to help the Department of Justice. Very common mistake Asians (and non Americans) make to mistake government officials/agencies for the good guy. From little experience I have with USA, law enforcement and tax people are just another scums on the contrary they might be worse than someone who tries to bribe you in a dark alley.

69 points by gedrap 11y ago

dudul 11y ago

Disgusting. I had to deal with the INS myself to get a visa, and later a green card. Thank God I didn't experience a tenth of what the author describes and I can still say that this "machinery" is incredibly dysfunctional.

pkaye 11y ago

I don't understand the $45K for the 3 green cards. Right now it costs maybe $1500 to process one green card application with the complexity of tax form. You can definitely do it yourself though a lawyer may add another $2000 to help you out. Back 10-20 years ago everything was probably half the amount. Also as I understand, H1B based green cards are sponsored by the employer?

viraptor 11y ago
Maybe it's the difference between "Right now it costs..." and what it cost in 1995? Also it's not clear if it's expedited with the lawyer, or was there some program to actually get it expedited with immigration - that could cost extra.
jquery 11y ago
If you read between the lines, it appears the author's father was bribing an INS official, albeit he claims his father did it unknowingly.
- johnloeber 11y ago
  Since when does "if you read between the lines" mean "infer the exact opposite of what the author stated"? The author wrote that his father ended up being a key witness to convict Daniel Lee. The story clearly states that the green cards were legally obtained through the father's work (see fourth paragraph).
  - jquery 11y ago
    Sounds like his father had a lot of interaction with Daniel Lee. "Everyone in here is innocent, you know that?" - Red, The Shawshank Redemption EDIT: Can't reply to the child comment. But we only have one side of the story here. At best it seems his father was a fool and it's hard to trust the word of a fool.
    - jacobolus 11y ago
      New immigrants who don’t know how to navigate a complex and hostile legal system are a pretty ripe customer base for fraudsters. Just because a scheme seems to a knowledgeable observer to be too good to be true doesn’t make it okay to blame the victims of such frauds.
      - jquery 11y ago
        Victim of fraud or not, how should the INS have handled it differently? If someone at your company is found trading job offers to unqualified people for money, should those unqualified people keep the jobs? Of course not. What if those unqualified people used an intermediary to proffer the bribe? Doesn't change anything. Sad story all around for the victim of fraud. That's why they are called a victim. Being a victim sucks and is nothing to be proud of.
tn13 11y ago
I have a hard time understanding this part as well, but from what I see, immigration to USA is so fucked up that the boundaries of what is legal and illegal have got far too blurred to make sense for someone who is not very familiar with all processes. For example H1B and F1 visas require that you have clear intention of going back. How many people actually want to go back given a shot at PR ? I do not think his father bribed a government official is a correct. His father hired someone who under a legal contract agreed to help his father in exchange of money. For example I might hire a doctor for kidney transplant. If the doctor kills someone to get the kidney that is not really my problem.

pandemicsyn 11y ago

Meh, they started proceedings to deport me over a year after I got my citizenship. tl;dr I moved a few months after getting my citizenship and the INS didn't realize I had become a citizen and got irritated that I didn't notify them of the move. The INS/DHS is hopeless.

refurb 11y ago
How did they know you moved? I moved a couple times and forgot to submit the change of address form. I did it retroactively, but nothing came of it.
- pandemicsyn 11y ago
  I'm guessing it was when I filed my taxes the following year since that included my updated address.

viraptor 11y ago

Wouldn't it cost more to go through with deportation (and risk people going into hiding instead), rather than just process them with priority again? Then again, maybe it's too reasonable for strictly applied law?

erikb 11y ago

To some degree of people who have fought through this and came out alive. In a competitive situation with someone who got through that a lazy normal person like me would have no chance of survival.

nether 11y ago

I don't understand how people like my roommate got into the US with minimal funds and no degree. He's from a village in Russia and just came here on his own, and works as a barista about 30 hrs/week. No lawyers or anything. He's been here for eight years. He said he worked at a national park first, but overall said the process of getting here (and staying) was pretty easy.

pkaye 11y ago
It is hard to immigrate easily without an employer or family sponsorship. A few people get it through green card lottery. Some come on a tourist visa or education visa and then overstay.
mikepavone 11y ago
Perhaps he came here through the Diversity Immigrant Visa program (aka the green card lottery)? If you're a resident of one of the eligible countries it's just a matter of filling out a form and getting lucky.
cjrp 11y ago
Is he definitely there legally? I believe there are (or were) student work programs for 3-6 months, which grant you a Social Security Number. Theoretically you could stay and continue working with that SSN.

jquery 11y ago

I take issue with the title. His father bribed an INS official. Maybe unknowingly, but the author's excuses for his father don't completely wash. $45k for an "expedited" green card, in 1995? Come on, you know something shady is happening at that point. That's $70k+ in today's dollars. IANAL, but I think immigration generally operates under strict liability, not mens rea. So regardless of whether his father knew he fucked up, his father was at fault. Same way a chemical plant has to pay damages if it poisons the community, whether or not they intended to hurt anyone.

EdwardDiego 11y ago
> His father bribed an INS official Did you even read the article mate? > To get our green cards expedited, we paid $45,000 for legal services, fees, and documentation for the three of us to an immigration brokerage service. It was a herculean sum of money for poor immigrants like us, but the American immigration system was hopelessly complicated and confusing. This was my first experience with how expensive lawyers could be. His broker may have bribed the official, but his father most certainly did not. > 45k for an "expedited" green card, in 1995? 3 expedited green cards. > Come on, you know something shady is happening at that point. Based on what, his extensive experience of the US immigration system that he obtained in South Korea?
- jquery 11y ago
  > Did you even read the article mate? Do you take everything at face value? > His broker may have bribed the official, but his father most certainly did not. Immigration is strict liability, so from the perspective of liability, his father did. > 45k for an "expedited" green card, in 1995? Good catch. I missed that. Makes me somewhat believe his father was just a fuck-up and not outright bribing. > Based on what, his extensive experience of the US immigration system that he obtained in South Korea? I don't know, based on maybe getting a second opinion before spending $45,000. Maybe based on the fact he'd spent years in Hong Kong and on H1-B. You don't need to know much about stereos to know you shouldn't buy them out of the back of a van. The author is quick to label his father an imbecile rather than a in-cahoots. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

treeonion 11y ago

My family came here legally as well, I was 10. Got stuck on I829, been renewing my permanent residency status every year for almost 18 years. Based on my home country's government records I'm not its citizen. I applied for U.S. military some time ago, but got denied due to depression I went through in college years. I'm a citizen of no country, and yet I love the U.S., I would die for no other country.

PebblesHD 11y ago
That is a very interesting situation to be in, do you have any concerns should your resident status get changed? What would you do if you were required to leave the US?
- treeonion 11y ago
  Every year we visit USCIS to get our status renewed for another year, and it worries us every time we do so. There are times when inexperienced USCIS agents (who don't understand our status) refuse to renew our status, in such circumstances we have to make another appointment and simply hope to run into one who've seen us for years. After the disappearance of our lawyer (over a decade ago), we had no way of getting our hands on any case files, I wouldn't know how to fight it in court if we were required to leave the US. After my father's real-estate developer business went bankrupt in the early 2000s we were in a financial downward slope, pretty much to the point where we had to beg our family friends for money. Nothing was left after my father's passing, well by that time my brother and I had jobs, which was fortunate, although the school loans do hurt, I may have to save up some for the lawyer costs if it ever comes to that.
  - PebblesHD 11y ago
    Wow, that is indeed very precarious, my best wishes and i really do hope it never comes to you needing a lawyer. That sounds incredibly stressful especially when going to uni/college while dealing with it.
    - 11y ago

csours 11y ago

Perhaps I'm overly critical but, if > ... [T]he stench of stale coffee and rancid soda cans that I collected from office trash cans to help make ends meet. was the worst he had to deal with in a cleaning job, he had a very nice office to clean. I've cleaned up much worse in my office, and I do IT for a living.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

shalmanese 11y ago

The INS is what the IRS would look like if taxpayers couldn't vote.

tn13 11y ago

He believed that by “doing the right thing” to help the Department of Justice. Very common mistake Asians (and non Americans) make to mistake government officials/agencies for the good guy. From little experience I have with USA, law enforcement and tax people are just another scums on the contrary they might be worse than someone who tries to bribe you in a dark alley.