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There has been two major attacks possibly related to Xinjiang lately. The 2014 Kunming attacks and the 2015 Bangkok bombings. In Chinese perspective these are

by chvid 11y ago

There has been two major attacks possibly related to Xinjiang lately. The 2014 Kunming attacks and the 2015 Bangkok bombings. In Chinese perspective these are acts of international terrorism related to islamist jihad (ISIS, Al Queda etc.). And talk about Xinjiang seperation from China would be what we in the west call "hate speech" since it possibly would entail cleansing of Han-chinese from the region. However this perspective is not shared by the west which is probably why the Chinese government cannot get the same services from Google and Facebook that countries like USA or France can when comes to censoring hate speech or get logs on suspected terrorist. Hence they have to resort to more primitive ways.

pjc50 11y ago
this perspective is not shared by the west True - because we can't see what's actually going on. Undoubtedly it's a complex situation like Israel or the Balkans. But since reporting is banned, we have to do the arithmetic of "police repression" + "reporting banned" and assume that it's cover for human rights violations like what happened in Tibet. Edit: quite a lot of the comment here looks like a not-very-convincing propaganda operation.
- jpatokal 11y ago
  Xinjiang isn't exactly North Korea: we actually can see what's going on pretty well, if not always in realtime and/or perfect fidelity. Anybody with a Chinese visa can go there and poke around without special permissions, and Urumqi is a city of three million people with a large international airport. For example, here's a detailed story in the Economist about the XPCC, the paramilitary state org responsible for a good deal of the exploitation of the region: http://www.economist.com/news/china/21578433-region-plagued-ethnic-strife-growth-immigrant-dominated-settlements-adding http://www.economist.com/news/china/21578433-region-plagued-...
  - tellarin 11y ago
    > Anybody with a Chinese visa can go there and poke around without special permissions This is not true. There are plenty of restrictions for foreigners travelling in Xinjiang, especially outside of the touristy areas in the main cities. Large areas are unreachable without special permits, allegedly due to "safety reasons".
    - jpatokal 11y ago
      Got link? Permits are required for various treks like K2 base camp, some archaeological sites, the Karakoram Highway to Pakistan etc, and as usual in China there are restrictions (varyingly enforced) on where foreigners are supposed to stay overnight, but the list below doesn't appear particularly sinister. http://oldroadtours.com/index.php/preparing-for-your-tour/visas-lois-border-crossings-a-permits http://oldroadtours.com/index.php/preparing-for-your-tour/vi...
      - tellarin 11y ago
        Overall it's not really that sinister, I guess. Outside those it's mostly local gov/police not wanting foreigners walking around, not being allowed of the bus between the larger cities, them being sensitive when getting somewhat close to the border with Kazakhstan, and Bingtuan. Having "paperwork" is required then. Plus, restrictions come and go on forcing foreigners to only travel with authorised tour agencies, or authorised guides, that won't take you to some places. And whose presence will make local people suspicious of talking to you.
  - chvid 11y ago
    Yes. It is not exactly North Korea and the perpetrators behind the Bangkok and Kunming attacks weren't exactly the Dalai Lama. In the realpolitik of the west there is an interest in keeping China occupied with internal troubles regardless of whether the people we end up supporting are nice or not.
ameen 11y ago
Han Chinese were implanted in there to prevent Uyghur homogenity. So, why do "Anti-Terror" efforts involve force feeding muslims during the Islamic month of Ramadan? They have a Chinese flag affixed inside Masjids, and a lot more, but I'm sure you get the drift that not many of us are ignorant about the atrocities inflicted upon them.
- iofj 11y ago
  And Uyghur muslims massacred their way to homogenity there before that. Somehow the fact that islam was spread there by century-long extermination wars never gets mentioned anywhere. So why don't you tell us why this one massacre is so much more deserving than the other ?
  - ameen 11y ago
    You want to argue history? Falsifying history are we? Islam spread to China through trade. But I guess you don't want to hear stuff that doesn't fit your narrative.
    - iofj 11y ago
      Oh right ... so that's what the Mongols were doing ... "trade". In way that's even a correct statement, as islam has slavery. But of course, by that standard you might as well call the Iraq invasion "oil trade".
- HowardMei 11y ago
  "Force feeding muslims during the Islamic month of Ramadan" --- Media Garbage. Only officers, teachers and students were disciplined, and I see no problems here. Religious practices are not allowed to paralyze public services. It's not new but had been a norm until extremists changed it. Apparently, you're pro-Muslim and anti-Han. You may find a lot of brothers and sisters in Malaysia and Indonesia where the laws undisguisedly claim MALAY FIRST. It's interesting that President Obama says nothing about this kind of extreme racist laws in his childhood residential country. Maybe he's pro-Muslim too? You put a pair of quotes on "Anti-Terror" to show your anti-Han position given the facts that Han suffered most from the tension between the Government and Muslim Extremists. It's a clear sign that you're a media puppet. China has a lot of "Affirmative Actions" against Han, including the birth control policy and Han people are furious about the situation. Maybe some day, there will be a HAN FIRST government for you to criticize Han racists but not now.

by chvid 11y ago

pjc50 11y ago

this perspective is not shared by the west True - because we can't see what's actually going on. Undoubtedly it's a complex situation like Israel or the Balkans. But since reporting is banned, we have to do the arithmetic of "police repression" + "reporting banned" and assume that it's cover for human rights violations like what happened in Tibet. Edit: quite a lot of the comment here looks like a not-very-convincing propaganda operation.

jpatokal 11y ago
Xinjiang isn't exactly North Korea: we actually can see what's going on pretty well, if not always in realtime and/or perfect fidelity. Anybody with a Chinese visa can go there and poke around without special permissions, and Urumqi is a city of three million people with a large international airport. For example, here's a detailed story in the Economist about the XPCC, the paramilitary state org responsible for a good deal of the exploitation of the region: http://www.economist.com/news/china/21578433-region-plagued-ethnic-strife-growth-immigrant-dominated-settlements-adding http://www.economist.com/news/china/21578433-region-plagued-...
- tellarin 11y ago
  > Anybody with a Chinese visa can go there and poke around without special permissions This is not true. There are plenty of restrictions for foreigners travelling in Xinjiang, especially outside of the touristy areas in the main cities. Large areas are unreachable without special permits, allegedly due to "safety reasons".
  - jpatokal 11y ago
    Got link? Permits are required for various treks like K2 base camp, some archaeological sites, the Karakoram Highway to Pakistan etc, and as usual in China there are restrictions (varyingly enforced) on where foreigners are supposed to stay overnight, but the list below doesn't appear particularly sinister. http://oldroadtours.com/index.php/preparing-for-your-tour/visas-lois-border-crossings-a-permits http://oldroadtours.com/index.php/preparing-for-your-tour/vi...
    - tellarin 11y ago
      Overall it's not really that sinister, I guess. Outside those it's mostly local gov/police not wanting foreigners walking around, not being allowed of the bus between the larger cities, them being sensitive when getting somewhat close to the border with Kazakhstan, and Bingtuan. Having "paperwork" is required then. Plus, restrictions come and go on forcing foreigners to only travel with authorised tour agencies, or authorised guides, that won't take you to some places. And whose presence will make local people suspicious of talking to you.
- chvid 11y ago
  Yes. It is not exactly North Korea and the perpetrators behind the Bangkok and Kunming attacks weren't exactly the Dalai Lama. In the realpolitik of the west there is an interest in keeping China occupied with internal troubles regardless of whether the people we end up supporting are nice or not.

ameen 11y ago

Han Chinese were implanted in there to prevent Uyghur homogenity. So, why do "Anti-Terror" efforts involve force feeding muslims during the Islamic month of Ramadan? They have a Chinese flag affixed inside Masjids, and a lot more, but I'm sure you get the drift that not many of us are ignorant about the atrocities inflicted upon them.

iofj 11y ago
And Uyghur muslims massacred their way to homogenity there before that. Somehow the fact that islam was spread there by century-long extermination wars never gets mentioned anywhere. So why don't you tell us why this one massacre is so much more deserving than the other ?
- ameen 11y ago
  You want to argue history? Falsifying history are we? Islam spread to China through trade. But I guess you don't want to hear stuff that doesn't fit your narrative.
  - iofj 11y ago
    Oh right ... so that's what the Mongols were doing ... "trade". In way that's even a correct statement, as islam has slavery. But of course, by that standard you might as well call the Iraq invasion "oil trade".
HowardMei 11y ago
"Force feeding muslims during the Islamic month of Ramadan" --- Media Garbage. Only officers, teachers and students were disciplined, and I see no problems here. Religious practices are not allowed to paralyze public services. It's not new but had been a norm until extremists changed it. Apparently, you're pro-Muslim and anti-Han. You may find a lot of brothers and sisters in Malaysia and Indonesia where the laws undisguisedly claim MALAY FIRST. It's interesting that President Obama says nothing about this kind of extreme racist laws in his childhood residential country. Maybe he's pro-Muslim too? You put a pair of quotes on "Anti-Terror" to show your anti-Han position given the facts that Han suffered most from the tension between the Government and Muslim Extremists. It's a clear sign that you're a media puppet. China has a lot of "Affirmative Actions" against Han, including the birth control policy and Han people are furious about the situation. Maybe some day, there will be a HAN FIRST government for you to criticize Han racists but not now.