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Good analogy with the auto industry. I don't think it will lead to the death of the drone. In fact I don't think it really goes far enough. Registration into

by btiede 11y ago

Good analogy with the auto industry. I don't think it will lead to the death of the drone. In fact I don't think it really goes far enough. Registration into such a database falls short of what some security experts agree is appropriate, especially when you consider that people with malicious intent are not going to register anyway. However, it is a necessary first step. EDIT: 'many' changed to '_some_ security experts': Source is the NYT article in the OP

bigiain 11y ago
Have you got any references to " … what many security experts agree is appropriate"? Because I can't think of any plausible threat that a sub 1 pound multicopter represents, that isn't already a treat from kites/frisbees/skateboards/bicycles or many other things which are considered perfectly acceptable and the risks of accidental injury or intentional misuse aren't dealt with just fine under current society.
- btiede 11y ago
  I'd agree that drones, like the traditional toys you mention tend not to pose a safety risk unless they bump into you. Kites/frisbees/skateboards etc. typically don't carry cameras, however, whereas it's quite easy to equip a small drone with one. Isn't it conceivable that a small drone equipped with a camera could monitor a facility (prison/bank etc.) from above and uncover and exploit security flaws that exist in that facility? I'm interested in hearing your take on the issue of drone regulation though as I see from your profile you are far more qualified to discuss it than I am. Edited the 'many' to 'some' in my earlier post. Source is the NYT article I posted.
  - bigiain 11y ago
    I find the idea that drones with cameras are somehow a new surveillance risk for "bad guys" a) prevalent, and b) bemusing. Probably 40% of the population is currently carrying round an 8 or 12 (or more) megapixel camera all the time. Nobody would bat an eyelid if you stood across the street from a bank for 40mins with a iPhone pressed against your ear with the camera facing the bank, or if you left a phone in a windscreen mount in a parking lot facing a prison. Why would people wanting that bother learning how to use a drone? For less than the price of a typical no-skill-required drone, you can go buy one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csp6asxf00o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csp6asxf00o (search for "Nikon P900" for many many more examples) I'm not even sure any of my drones would be capable of getting out to take the shots in the first 15-20 seconds of that video, then making it all the way back to where the camera is. And those people have infinitely less chance of noticing they're potentially being photographed than if I'm flying a drone close enough to take those same shots. (And no, drone stabilisation - even with high grade brushless camera gimbals - isn't _anything_ like steady enough to use in conjunction with optics like that. Raytheon and General Dynamics can probably get useable imgaery from 2000mm equivalent lenses on military grade drones, but it's _way_ outside hobbyist or even small commercial photography grade gear) What makes a camera on a drone scary, but a $700 point-n-shoot not worth worrying about?
    - bigiain 11y ago
      Note: I'm pretty sure the glass alone in the lens of that camera weighs more than all but my biggest drone (my second-heaviest drone is 470g ready to fly). I usually fly with a 38g camera if I'm trying to record decent pictures (a Mobius) or a 17g camera if I just want a useable recording of a flight (an 808 keychain camera).
      - btiede 11y ago
        Thanks for sharing Bigiain. Interesting discussion. Have wanted to get into drone photography. Am a painter, so think this would be an interesting new domain for me (provided that I can find a canvas large enough!)
        bigiain 11y ago
        Heh - watch out for that... Photographers - in one sense - make the _worst_ drone hobbyists. Some of them are never happy without most of a kilogram of very expensive glass up in the air, because it's quite true that everything GoPro category and down takes quite flawed photographs compares to even mid range DSLR type camera with good lenses. I've got friends who spend more on software licences for their colour grading tool than I've spent in total on my whole fleet of 5 quad copters. If you just want to be able to see what things look like "from up there", here's a way to do that for ~$130: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/5228554566/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/5228554566/ If you want to do _ART_ from a multicopter, you're quite likely to be unhappy with the results of 10 or 20 times that much outlay... (And, you're quite likely to be distracted from "doing important art" by "having way too much fun with toy helicopters"...)
    - btiede 11y ago
      Thanks for your perspective on this. |"Why would people wanting that bother learning how to use a drone?" Good point. I suppose they might still gain some value from having the aerial view as opposed to setting up multiple shots from cameras/phones on the ground? Then again if, as you say, the shots from a small commercial aerial drone are not clear because of stability issues etc., then it is pointless to use one. Is drone camera stabilization getting better though, to the point where it would be very easy to capture a good, high quality image from a higher altitude even with a small drone in the near future and is that something regulators should take into consideration now? How do you think the drone industry should be regulated and what weight class(es) do you think it these regulations should cover?

by btiede 11y ago

bigiain 11y ago

Have you got any references to " … what many security experts agree is appropriate"? Because I can't think of any plausible threat that a sub 1 pound multicopter represents, that isn't already a treat from kites/frisbees/skateboards/bicycles or many other things which are considered perfectly acceptable and the risks of accidental injury or intentional misuse aren't dealt with just fine under current society.

btiede 11y ago
I'd agree that drones, like the traditional toys you mention tend not to pose a safety risk unless they bump into you. Kites/frisbees/skateboards etc. typically don't carry cameras, however, whereas it's quite easy to equip a small drone with one. Isn't it conceivable that a small drone equipped with a camera could monitor a facility (prison/bank etc.) from above and uncover and exploit security flaws that exist in that facility? I'm interested in hearing your take on the issue of drone regulation though as I see from your profile you are far more qualified to discuss it than I am. Edited the 'many' to 'some' in my earlier post. Source is the NYT article I posted.
- bigiain 11y ago
  I find the idea that drones with cameras are somehow a new surveillance risk for "bad guys" a) prevalent, and b) bemusing. Probably 40% of the population is currently carrying round an 8 or 12 (or more) megapixel camera all the time. Nobody would bat an eyelid if you stood across the street from a bank for 40mins with a iPhone pressed against your ear with the camera facing the bank, or if you left a phone in a windscreen mount in a parking lot facing a prison. Why would people wanting that bother learning how to use a drone? For less than the price of a typical no-skill-required drone, you can go buy one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csp6asxf00o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csp6asxf00o (search for "Nikon P900" for many many more examples) I'm not even sure any of my drones would be capable of getting out to take the shots in the first 15-20 seconds of that video, then making it all the way back to where the camera is. And those people have infinitely less chance of noticing they're potentially being photographed than if I'm flying a drone close enough to take those same shots. (And no, drone stabilisation - even with high grade brushless camera gimbals - isn't _anything_ like steady enough to use in conjunction with optics like that. Raytheon and General Dynamics can probably get useable imgaery from 2000mm equivalent lenses on military grade drones, but it's _way_ outside hobbyist or even small commercial photography grade gear) What makes a camera on a drone scary, but a $700 point-n-shoot not worth worrying about?
  - bigiain 11y ago
    Note: I'm pretty sure the glass alone in the lens of that camera weighs more than all but my biggest drone (my second-heaviest drone is 470g ready to fly). I usually fly with a 38g camera if I'm trying to record decent pictures (a Mobius) or a 17g camera if I just want a useable recording of a flight (an 808 keychain camera).
    - btiede 11y ago
      Thanks for sharing Bigiain. Interesting discussion. Have wanted to get into drone photography. Am a painter, so think this would be an interesting new domain for me (provided that I can find a canvas large enough!)
      - bigiain 11y ago
        Heh - watch out for that... Photographers - in one sense - make the _worst_ drone hobbyists. Some of them are never happy without most of a kilogram of very expensive glass up in the air, because it's quite true that everything GoPro category and down takes quite flawed photographs compares to even mid range DSLR type camera with good lenses. I've got friends who spend more on software licences for their colour grading tool than I've spent in total on my whole fleet of 5 quad copters. If you just want to be able to see what things look like "from up there", here's a way to do that for ~$130: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/5228554566/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/5228554566/ If you want to do _ART_ from a multicopter, you're quite likely to be unhappy with the results of 10 or 20 times that much outlay... (And, you're quite likely to be distracted from "doing important art" by "having way too much fun with toy helicopters"...)
  - btiede 11y ago
    Thanks for your perspective on this. |"Why would people wanting that bother learning how to use a drone?" Good point. I suppose they might still gain some value from having the aerial view as opposed to setting up multiple shots from cameras/phones on the ground? Then again if, as you say, the shots from a small commercial aerial drone are not clear because of stability issues etc., then it is pointless to use one. Is drone camera stabilization getting better though, to the point where it would be very easy to capture a good, high quality image from a higher altitude even with a small drone in the near future and is that something regulators should take into consideration now? How do you think the drone industry should be regulated and what weight class(es) do you think it these regulations should cover?