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I'm very interesting in maintaining security and privacy while still being able to use the internet, so please don't interpret this comment as a dismissal of yo

by lfam 11y ago

I'm very interesting in maintaining security and privacy while still being able to use the internet, so please don't interpret this comment as a dismissal of your concerns. I share your concerns 100%. But I hate the phrase "ruin lives". How are lives ruined? Bad things happen to people all the time, and their lives continue. It's really a poor way to talk about these issues.

untog 11y ago
But I hate the phrase "ruin lives". How are lives ruined? Bad things happen to people all the time, and their lives continue. It's really a poor way to talk about these issues. Leaking of your social security number can result in your credit rating being ruined for years. This will leave you unable to take our a mortgage, buy a car, etc. etc. In the Ashley Madison hack, details of people being unfaithful in their marriages was exposed, which has led to divorce and even suicide. If that doesn't count as a "ruined life", what does?
- lfam 11y ago
  Those are all major problems. I think that "ruined life" is crap Newspeak. It's like "boots on the ground", "inner-city", "financial crisis", "cloud", and a billion examples from the "business world". These phrases prevent thought and communication rather than facilitate it. Aside from that, people will respond to those problems in a myriad of ways. Almost all of them keep living and return to their baseline emotional state again. Using the phrase "ruined life" ignores human resiliency which is very powerful. It makes us sound like teenagers experiencing our first heartbreak.
  - untog 11y ago
    So you're saying that we shouldn't use "ruined life" in any circumstances? I'm not really sure what the appeal is to here - that we should only ever use clinical and unemotional words when describing things? Seems like a net loss to me. If I think my life has been ruined why can't I say that?
    - lfam 11y ago
      Of course you should use it when you think its appropriate. For example, if you left your boots on the ground, it would be appropriate to describe them as "boots on the ground". If you are talking about the historic center of a city, call it the "inner-city". But for the examples you gave upthread, it would be more accurate and useful to say "ruined credit" (and in that case, it's really only for some years) or "ruined marriage". If someone spent their life in prison and lost their mind due to a wrongful conviction, I'd call that a "ruined life". And if you feel your life is ruined, you should say it. But I read the phrase "ruined life" and I really don't think it communicates anything except for "bad thing". So why not just express the value judgment and say "That's bad and here's why" rather than trying to describe a life as "ruined"? It's another phrase that has lost whatever meaning it once had.
      - lotso 11y ago
        I think a lot of the people who have had identify fraud happen to them would say their life has been ruined. This seems like a silly argument on whether or not their lives have been "really ruined" or not when we get the point. Yes, it is a phrase, maybe it is overused, but does it really matter?
      - derekp7 11y ago
        "Ruined life" can and should refer to an event that negatively affects other major areas of one's life that are not directly connected to that event. Being able to buy a house has nothing to do with a random company getting hacked, unless that hack involved getting your personal information into the hands of criminals, who then use that to commit criminal activity which leads to false accusations against you regarding your creditworthiness, leading to lenders not trusting you with a house loan.
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  It's a little more fair to say the people pursuing affairs ruined their own lives, since they took the ruinous actions and simply hoped not to be exposed.
  - untog 11y ago
    Sure. But if someone ruins their own life it's still correct to describe their life as having been ruined.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      It is correct to say that their life is ruined. But is it true to say that the hack ruined their life or is it the cheating that ruined their life and the hack only revealed it. And if we say both, because both had to happen for the life to enter into a 'ruined' state, could we then say that other things that could've stopped the hack ruined their lives? For example, a tornado not destroying the Ashley Madison site ruined their life.
yeukhon 11y ago
If you read the story, many identifies have been stolen. Some lost money in the bank, some got credit card charges. People were confused, paranoid, scared of not knowing what to do other than going to office and hoping something better would come out. I think the term "ruin lives" is not the sort of life and death kind, rather the social and psychological effects were and probably still are, dangerous to close to ruin one's life. Imagine someone comes into your house and destroy everything you cherish (photos, videos). Now instead imagining that this happens to your friend, then your other friend the following month, you will keep pondering and worrying whether you will be next. You are literally sitting duck. Getting your credit back to good standard is a really really tough effort.
aaron695 11y ago
What you say is true, but it needs better wording perhaps. Like 'closure' I see how it is a toxic saying that harms people. Did telling people their life is ruined (and having that attitude) just because they had an affair publicised, contribute to the suicides, perhaps. Self fulfilling.

by lfam 11y ago

untog 11y ago

But I hate the phrase "ruin lives". How are lives ruined? Bad things happen to people all the time, and their lives continue. It's really a poor way to talk about these issues. Leaking of your social security number can result in your credit rating being ruined for years. This will leave you unable to take our a mortgage, buy a car, etc. etc. In the Ashley Madison hack, details of people being unfaithful in their marriages was exposed, which has led to divorce and even suicide. If that doesn't count as a "ruined life", what does?

lfam 11y ago
Those are all major problems. I think that "ruined life" is crap Newspeak. It's like "boots on the ground", "inner-city", "financial crisis", "cloud", and a billion examples from the "business world". These phrases prevent thought and communication rather than facilitate it. Aside from that, people will respond to those problems in a myriad of ways. Almost all of them keep living and return to their baseline emotional state again. Using the phrase "ruined life" ignores human resiliency which is very powerful. It makes us sound like teenagers experiencing our first heartbreak.
- untog 11y ago
  So you're saying that we shouldn't use "ruined life" in any circumstances? I'm not really sure what the appeal is to here - that we should only ever use clinical and unemotional words when describing things? Seems like a net loss to me. If I think my life has been ruined why can't I say that?
  - lfam 11y ago
    Of course you should use it when you think its appropriate. For example, if you left your boots on the ground, it would be appropriate to describe them as "boots on the ground". If you are talking about the historic center of a city, call it the "inner-city". But for the examples you gave upthread, it would be more accurate and useful to say "ruined credit" (and in that case, it's really only for some years) or "ruined marriage". If someone spent their life in prison and lost their mind due to a wrongful conviction, I'd call that a "ruined life". And if you feel your life is ruined, you should say it. But I read the phrase "ruined life" and I really don't think it communicates anything except for "bad thing". So why not just express the value judgment and say "That's bad and here's why" rather than trying to describe a life as "ruined"? It's another phrase that has lost whatever meaning it once had.
    - lotso 11y ago
      I think a lot of the people who have had identify fraud happen to them would say their life has been ruined. This seems like a silly argument on whether or not their lives have been "really ruined" or not when we get the point. Yes, it is a phrase, maybe it is overused, but does it really matter?
    - derekp7 11y ago
      "Ruined life" can and should refer to an event that negatively affects other major areas of one's life that are not directly connected to that event. Being able to buy a house has nothing to do with a random company getting hacked, unless that hack involved getting your personal information into the hands of criminals, who then use that to commit criminal activity which leads to false accusations against you regarding your creditworthiness, leading to lenders not trusting you with a house loan.
oldmanjay 11y ago
It's a little more fair to say the people pursuing affairs ruined their own lives, since they took the ruinous actions and simply hoped not to be exposed.
- untog 11y ago
  Sure. But if someone ruins their own life it's still correct to describe their life as having been ruined.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    It is correct to say that their life is ruined. But is it true to say that the hack ruined their life or is it the cheating that ruined their life and the hack only revealed it. And if we say both, because both had to happen for the life to enter into a 'ruined' state, could we then say that other things that could've stopped the hack ruined their lives? For example, a tornado not destroying the Ashley Madison site ruined their life.

yeukhon 11y ago

If you read the story, many identifies have been stolen. Some lost money in the bank, some got credit card charges. People were confused, paranoid, scared of not knowing what to do other than going to office and hoping something better would come out. I think the term "ruin lives" is not the sort of life and death kind, rather the social and psychological effects were and probably still are, dangerous to close to ruin one's life. Imagine someone comes into your house and destroy everything you cherish (photos, videos). Now instead imagining that this happens to your friend, then your other friend the following month, you will keep pondering and worrying whether you will be next. You are literally sitting duck. Getting your credit back to good standard is a really really tough effort.

aaron695 11y ago

What you say is true, but it needs better wording perhaps. Like 'closure' I see how it is a toxic saying that harms people. Did telling people their life is ruined (and having that attitude) just because they had an affair publicised, contribute to the suicides, perhaps. Self fulfilling.