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> Our road design precludes kids cycling to school No, there are plenty of children who cycle to school and in safety in the UK. The bigger issue is parents' f

> Our road design precludes kids cycling to school No, there are plenty of children who cycle to school and in safety in the UK. The bigger issue is parents' fears of abduction and/or traffic.

awjr 11y ago
I have to disagree here. Various Council Highways departments are absolutely focused on traffic flow. I would go as far as to say that the two top priorities are traffic flow and not affecting on-street parking. It's changing. This table comes from the Welsh Active Travel Act Design Guidance https://cyclebath.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/screen-shot-2014-12-15-at-09-50-56.png https://cyclebath.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/screen-shot-20... If you have a 30mph road, it needs a protected cycle track. We need space where an 8 year old cycling to school does not have to share road space with HGVs. Where one mistake does not get punished by death.
lhopki01 11y ago
I cycle all over London and I don't feel safe a lot of the time. Big roads have inconsistent cycle lanes that start and stop at random or are ignored by drivers. Side roads have people who think 35mph is a reasonable speed to go on a road that doesn't even have space for two cars to pass side by side. The UK needs a lot more investment in cycle infrastructure before it could be considered safe.
- awjr 11y ago
  This is the streetview of London Road, Bath. https://goo.gl/maps/BF8dHyqetow https://goo.gl/maps/BF8dHyqetow Local cycling groups campaigned for a 2 way protected track along here, but were over-ruled by a council officer who chose a design, where you can be cycling along with your child on a bike, be overtaken by a bus, that then pulls in forcing you to pull out into 30mph traffic. They chose a design where dead space in the middle of the road was more important than providing a design that encouraged modal shift. This road also breaks the EU legal limits on pollution. They knew this when they put in this design. I wrote about it here http://cyclebath.org.uk/2015/05/23/london-road-an-example-of-bad-banes-management/ http://cyclebath.org.uk/2015/05/23/london-road-an-example-of... however the real issue is that a lot of Highways officers still consider cycling a joke. "Why should we cater for the 2%" is a line I hear a lot. However, you do not build a bridge because of the number of people swimming the river.
  - lhopki01 11y ago
    Yeah I see this a lot. The first "cycle superhighways" in London were along these lines. Thankfully they've started building properly segregated cycle lanes and are rebuilding quite a few junctions. I think it helps that now cyclists are the majority of traffic over quite a few bridges in London. It'll continue to be a very long fight but I think there is hope. That being said it does seem like other UK cities are lagging behind London which in itself is nowhere near where it needs to be. I think the true sign that cycling has finally been acknowledged will be the implementation of green wave traffic signalling for commuter routes into the city.
    - awjr 11y ago
      Honestly, the only way I see this ever being taken seriously is when the DfT has to ringfence 10% of their budget to the development of high-quality cycle infrastructure. When a road can be identified as a major "arterial route" and councils have to prioritise cycling over the provision of on-street parking. That one is an absolute killer for many schemes. As a resident, you can object to the removal of an on-street parking space, creating a major weak link in a good cycle transport corridor.
      - lhopki01 11y ago
        Yeah on street parking is the bane of cycling. So many roads have on street parking on both sides and yet there's no space for two cars to pass each other. I don't know what will make the difference. I think in London it's taken years of campaigning and highlighting to deaths to get a change. Having an elected mayor controlling transport also helps a bit to because it gives a focus for the campaigning. It'll remain to be seen if London continues it's improvements or gives up on them. I hope we have now reached the tipping point where cyclists start to outnumber other road users on so many roads that the 5% argument can't be used anymore.
Symbiote 11y ago
About 2% of English children cycle to school, which is very few — the lowest in Europe. A neighbouring country, the Netherlands, has 49%, the highest in Europe. Given the lack of joined-up cycle lanes in most English settlements, a default speed limit of 30mph (50km/h), and a ban on cycling on the pavement, a fear of traffic seems very reasonable. A road accident is the most common cause of accidental death for a child, and most of these are child pedestrians. (This is followed by asphyxiation and drowning.) https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/walking-and-cycling-statistics https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/walking-and-cyclin...

> Our road design precludes kids cycling to school No, there are plenty of children who cycle to school and in safety in the UK. The bigger issue is parents' fears of abduction and/or traffic.

awjr 11y ago

I have to disagree here. Various Council Highways departments are absolutely focused on traffic flow. I would go as far as to say that the two top priorities are traffic flow and not affecting on-street parking. It's changing. This table comes from the Welsh Active Travel Act Design Guidance https://cyclebath.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/screen-shot-2014-12-15-at-09-50-56.png https://cyclebath.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/screen-shot-20... If you have a 30mph road, it needs a protected cycle track. We need space where an 8 year old cycling to school does not have to share road space with HGVs. Where one mistake does not get punished by death.

lhopki01 11y ago

I cycle all over London and I don't feel safe a lot of the time. Big roads have inconsistent cycle lanes that start and stop at random or are ignored by drivers. Side roads have people who think 35mph is a reasonable speed to go on a road that doesn't even have space for two cars to pass side by side. The UK needs a lot more investment in cycle infrastructure before it could be considered safe.

awjr 11y ago
This is the streetview of London Road, Bath. https://goo.gl/maps/BF8dHyqetow https://goo.gl/maps/BF8dHyqetow Local cycling groups campaigned for a 2 way protected track along here, but were over-ruled by a council officer who chose a design, where you can be cycling along with your child on a bike, be overtaken by a bus, that then pulls in forcing you to pull out into 30mph traffic. They chose a design where dead space in the middle of the road was more important than providing a design that encouraged modal shift. This road also breaks the EU legal limits on pollution. They knew this when they put in this design. I wrote about it here http://cyclebath.org.uk/2015/05/23/london-road-an-example-of-bad-banes-management/ http://cyclebath.org.uk/2015/05/23/london-road-an-example-of... however the real issue is that a lot of Highways officers still consider cycling a joke. "Why should we cater for the 2%" is a line I hear a lot. However, you do not build a bridge because of the number of people swimming the river.
- lhopki01 11y ago
  Yeah I see this a lot. The first "cycle superhighways" in London were along these lines. Thankfully they've started building properly segregated cycle lanes and are rebuilding quite a few junctions. I think it helps that now cyclists are the majority of traffic over quite a few bridges in London. It'll continue to be a very long fight but I think there is hope. That being said it does seem like other UK cities are lagging behind London which in itself is nowhere near where it needs to be. I think the true sign that cycling has finally been acknowledged will be the implementation of green wave traffic signalling for commuter routes into the city.
  - awjr 11y ago
    Honestly, the only way I see this ever being taken seriously is when the DfT has to ringfence 10% of their budget to the development of high-quality cycle infrastructure. When a road can be identified as a major "arterial route" and councils have to prioritise cycling over the provision of on-street parking. That one is an absolute killer for many schemes. As a resident, you can object to the removal of an on-street parking space, creating a major weak link in a good cycle transport corridor.
    - lhopki01 11y ago
      Yeah on street parking is the bane of cycling. So many roads have on street parking on both sides and yet there's no space for two cars to pass each other. I don't know what will make the difference. I think in London it's taken years of campaigning and highlighting to deaths to get a change. Having an elected mayor controlling transport also helps a bit to because it gives a focus for the campaigning. It'll remain to be seen if London continues it's improvements or gives up on them. I hope we have now reached the tipping point where cyclists start to outnumber other road users on so many roads that the 5% argument can't be used anymore.

Symbiote 11y ago

About 2% of English children cycle to school, which is very few — the lowest in Europe. A neighbouring country, the Netherlands, has 49%, the highest in Europe. Given the lack of joined-up cycle lanes in most English settlements, a default speed limit of 30mph (50km/h), and a ban on cycling on the pavement, a fear of traffic seems very reasonable. A road accident is the most common cause of accidental death for a child, and most of these are child pedestrians. (This is followed by asphyxiation and drowning.) https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/walking-and-cycling-statistics https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/walking-and-cyclin...