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It's funny how people will make things up to satisfy the HN anti-car hive mind. Sorry people, you're living in a bubble. The vast, vast, VAST majority of peop

It's funny how people will make things up to satisfy the HN anti-car hive mind. Sorry people, you're living in a bubble. The vast, vast, VAST majority of people don't hate cars like the HN collective does.

distances 11y ago
Many countries in Europe have a clear generational change ongoing: young people are much less likely to get a car or a driver's license. I would expect HN just to reflect this general trend.
audunw 11y ago
*The vast, vast, VAST majority of people _in the US_ don't hate cars People generally don't hate their own culture. But it's obvious from a european perspective that the US has an unhealthy obsession about cars. Not that we hate cars, but we don't worship them either. And I don't think HN hates cars. All I've seen is people pointing out real issues. Maybe some exaggeration here and there, but everyone is guilty of that.
ant6n 11y ago
Actually many people on HN live in the pro-car-obsession bubble. Which seems strange for a group of people that is collectively educated, aware of issues, good at analysis of problems, and generally dreams of a better future.
trgn 11y ago
There is no hive-mind about this issue on HN. About half the comments here are from people who dispute the article. From my own personal experience(real life, not on-line), techies are by FAR more pro-car, and dismissive off traditional urbanism. Real Engineers outside software even more so. I think it is because suburban homes have a lot of space for all the crap tinkerers collect. Hobbies in this crowd tend to skew to things with stuff; drones, cars, ... A more introverted disposition may drive engineers to the quiet and seclusion of the suburbs too. Plus, engineers like to optimize things. Keep the process intact, but strive for less travel time, less fuel consumption, less pollution, less casualties. Hence electrical cars. Hence self-driving cars. But always "cars". Not necessarily related to what you were saying, but I'll sneak it in anyway: Traffic is not a technological challenge, it is a human one, with all the messiness that entails. An anthropologist can just as well study traffic (and propose solutions) as a traffic engineer. The big mistake in the US was to hand over the governance and implementation of our urban environment to technocrats. The planning profession has long since come around, precisely because often they were educated in sociology departments (Oh, the affront an engineer must feel when he has to justify building codes to this numbnut planner who probably only passed intro to stats by schmoozing with the TA!). Anyway, eventually the bureaucrats, legislators, and building professionals will come around too. But it requires for a lot of people to reject what they have - literally - bought into. The suburbs are NOT doomed though, there's a lot of good about it. But they are expensive. So the suburbs at all cost are most definitely coming at an end. Municipalities are strained financially, precisely because the financial obligations of maintaining car sprawl are high. On an individual level, the suburbs just cost a lot too. Everybody needs a car, maintenance & utilities costs of the home are born by just a single household, etc... The suburbs are massive social engineering, a federal project to promote home ownership and promote financial independence. Plus, a sprawling city would be more resilient should a nuclear war breakout, that paranoia was also something in the 50s. The home ownership part has succeeded, but the financial independence part has been a total failure.
andys627 11y ago
I don't hate cars. I want people to understand how much we subsidize them. I want to bust the myth that they are the only way in the US and I want that to lead to subsidizing alternatives. In the USA the car is the solution to every city building problem. This is the problem as I see it.

distances 11y ago

Many countries in Europe have a clear generational change ongoing: young people are much less likely to get a car or a driver's license. I would expect HN just to reflect this general trend.

audunw 11y ago

*The vast, vast, VAST majority of people _in the US_ don't hate cars People generally don't hate their own culture. But it's obvious from a european perspective that the US has an unhealthy obsession about cars. Not that we hate cars, but we don't worship them either. And I don't think HN hates cars. All I've seen is people pointing out real issues. Maybe some exaggeration here and there, but everyone is guilty of that.

ant6n 11y ago

Actually many people on HN live in the pro-car-obsession bubble. Which seems strange for a group of people that is collectively educated, aware of issues, good at analysis of problems, and generally dreams of a better future.

trgn 11y ago

There is no hive-mind about this issue on HN. About half the comments here are from people who dispute the article. From my own personal experience(real life, not on-line), techies are by FAR more pro-car, and dismissive off traditional urbanism. Real Engineers outside software even more so. I think it is because suburban homes have a lot of space for all the crap tinkerers collect. Hobbies in this crowd tend to skew to things with stuff; drones, cars, ... A more introverted disposition may drive engineers to the quiet and seclusion of the suburbs too. Plus, engineers like to optimize things. Keep the process intact, but strive for less travel time, less fuel consumption, less pollution, less casualties. Hence electrical cars. Hence self-driving cars. But always "cars". Not necessarily related to what you were saying, but I'll sneak it in anyway: Traffic is not a technological challenge, it is a human one, with all the messiness that entails. An anthropologist can just as well study traffic (and propose solutions) as a traffic engineer. The big mistake in the US was to hand over the governance and implementation of our urban environment to technocrats. The planning profession has long since come around, precisely because often they were educated in sociology departments (Oh, the affront an engineer must feel when he has to justify building codes to this numbnut planner who probably only passed intro to stats by schmoozing with the TA!). Anyway, eventually the bureaucrats, legislators, and building professionals will come around too. But it requires for a lot of people to reject what they have - literally - bought into. The suburbs are NOT doomed though, there's a lot of good about it. But they are expensive. So the suburbs at all cost are most definitely coming at an end. Municipalities are strained financially, precisely because the financial obligations of maintaining car sprawl are high. On an individual level, the suburbs just cost a lot too. Everybody needs a car, maintenance & utilities costs of the home are born by just a single household, etc... The suburbs are massive social engineering, a federal project to promote home ownership and promote financial independence. Plus, a sprawling city would be more resilient should a nuclear war breakout, that paranoia was also something in the 50s. The home ownership part has succeeded, but the financial independence part has been a total failure.

andys627 11y ago

I don't hate cars. I want people to understand how much we subsidize them. I want to bust the myth that they are the only way in the US and I want that to lead to subsidizing alternatives. In the USA the car is the solution to every city building problem. This is the problem as I see it.