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I'm sure I'm in the minority here (where the word "racist" is thrown around rather liberally and without any mind for "let him who is without sin...") In any ca

I'm sure I'm in the minority here (where the word "racist" is thrown around rather liberally and without any mind for "let him who is without sin...") In any case, I can understand the tension. First and perhaps most common is just a fear of changing culture. It happens, and all is fluid, but it's not uncommon. Many people fear change, and I'm not saying it's good to restrict change because of that fear, but I understand the human nature behind it. That said, I'd be upset if I had to hear a call to prayer 5 times a day. I am pretty anti-religion as it goes, which is my own personal bias, but I don't appreciate being forced to tolerate annoyance for someone else's religion. It's the same as people blasting music in the park 5x a day - the idea of noise pollution and disturbing the peace exists for this very reason. Allowing it to continue for what I assume are politically correct reasons is frustrating. I also do not understand why I should be expected to tolerate Islam when it stands against many things I'm for - most egregiously is equal rights for women (not to mention other common religious touch-points like homosexuality, premarital sex, and huge swaths of science education). Islam is most oppressive to women. I hear the argument "Well what if a woman wants to be Muslim?" to which I answer that I'm sure there were conservative women against Suffrage or equal pay or any number of progressive issues for women. Living in peace with our neighbors is fine and expected, and living in a major city as I do, there are people of all creeds and religions - but I'm still going to be annoyed when the National Guard take over the city and lock it down for the Pope (who, as progressive as he is, is still rather homophobic), or when the Nation of Islam is shouting through speakers on the streets, or when some born-again nut is shouting at me through a loud speaker/bull horn about how my whole family is going to burn in Hell. Tolerance for Islam is the new politically correct darling. It's still oppressive to women, it's still an organized religion, and like absolutely everything and everybody in this world, it will take full advantage of the leeway given to it. And so I understand the frustration with certain aspects of what this article touches on.

seivan 11y ago
You're not a minority. And the irony is, many moderate muslims agree with you. Unfortunately they are usually called "native informants" by Glenn Greenwald and the loud far reaching islamic imperialist posse thus making you feel like a minority, but you're not.
cstross 11y ago
I also do not understand why I should be expected to tolerate Islam when it stands against many things I'm for You're expected to tolerate it for the same reason they are expected to tolerate your beliefs. (Or those of Christian dominionists, for that matter.) Separation of Church and State is one of the best ideas to have come out of the US constitution, bar none, and if you don't see how it benefits you, you haven't lived in a nation that doesn't have it. (Trust me on this: I'm British and I can't go out of my front door without witnessing the long-term effects of a State religion around me -- a toothless, decrepit thing that is rapidly fading away, but a state religion nonetheless, with all the legacy of privilege that implies.)
lotsofcows 11y ago
"Islam is"... what? That's like saying "Christianity is..." Pick a flavour, then a sub-flavour; you'll still be making generalisms largely but at least you won't sound like a bigot. Even better stop labelling things culturally. Do you have a problem with women's rights? Good, then fight for women's rights. Do you have a problem with the Azhan, with blasting music, with cockeral's crowing, with bloody church bells? Then your concern is public noise, not a culturally specific public noise.

seivan 11y ago

You're not a minority. And the irony is, many moderate muslims agree with you. Unfortunately they are usually called "native informants" by Glenn Greenwald and the loud far reaching islamic imperialist posse thus making you feel like a minority, but you're not.

cstross 11y ago

I also do not understand why I should be expected to tolerate Islam when it stands against many things I'm for You're expected to tolerate it for the same reason they are expected to tolerate your beliefs. (Or those of Christian dominionists, for that matter.) Separation of Church and State is one of the best ideas to have come out of the US constitution, bar none, and if you don't see how it benefits you, you haven't lived in a nation that doesn't have it. (Trust me on this: I'm British and I can't go out of my front door without witnessing the long-term effects of a State religion around me -- a toothless, decrepit thing that is rapidly fading away, but a state religion nonetheless, with all the legacy of privilege that implies.)

lotsofcows 11y ago

"Islam is"... what? That's like saying "Christianity is..." Pick a flavour, then a sub-flavour; you'll still be making generalisms largely but at least you won't sound like a bigot. Even better stop labelling things culturally. Do you have a problem with women's rights? Good, then fight for women's rights. Do you have a problem with the Azhan, with blasting music, with cockeral's crowing, with bloody church bells? Then your concern is public noise, not a culturally specific public noise.