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In the first majority-Muslim U.S. city, residents tense about its future
- Torgo 11y agoI find it more significant that this wasn't any sort of natural demographic shift because of jobs or anything else, but a direct result of the federal refugee resettlement program. Some distant government agency sat down and essentially worked out a plan that they knew (or should have known) would make Muslims a majority in a previously massively Catholic-majority city. That has massive political and social ramifications, both at the cause and effect level. Why isn't that the story?
- c3534l 11y ago> Business owners within 500 feet of one of Hamtramck’s four mosques can’t obtain a liquor license, she complained Isn't that an illegal violation of the separation of church and state?
- frozenport 11y agoJust like dry counties or final call?
- raverbashing 11y agoAnd Blue Sundays (but final call I'm not so sure) Also the noise violations for the prayer call Meanwhile Saudi Arabia condemns atheists to death
- c3534l 11y agoThose apply to everyone in the jurisdiction at least, though blue laws are often widely acknowledged as being religious laws that have fallen through the cracks (even though, oddly, Christianity doesn't have any prohibitions on drinking that I know of). Still, they don't say "you can't eat bacon if you live close to a Jew and they tell you to stop." That's insane that a law is in place that says people of a certain religion can tell you what to do simply by virtue of being near you.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoIs it? The ultimate reason behind it might be religious, but it's not enshrining religion in law. I would imagine that it's fine for a county to, say, ban non-halal meat (if they had the power to do so). But it wouldn't be fine to legally mandate daily prayers.
- seivan 11y agoYes, yes it is. There can't be a (serious) doubt here.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoAre dry counties a violation, then?
- rplst8 11y agoDry counties are already banning what is already a controlled substance.
- RottenHuman 11y agostupid question. of course they are. Islam does not know a separation of church and state and does not consider itself a private matter at all. With that religion there comes a mandatory political and societal system, with strict rules on Kuffar and Moslems alike. Wherever Moslem settle in great numbers, Sharia will follow and they will try to implement it.
- tzs 11y agoIf it just applies to mosques then it would almost certainly raise Constitutional issues. If it applies to all churches, then probably not. Most states have or allow their local communities to have rules prohibiting liquor sales near various kinds of community locations, which are generally some subset of schools, churches, playgrounds, daycare centers, and similar. These have been around a long time and have been actively enforced, so I'd expect that if they were a problem they would have been challenged long ago.
- cstross 11y agoI read this article as quasi-racist fearmongering, jumping on the Trump bandwagon for circulation figures. Shameful yellow journalism, in other words. Imagine how this article would read if for "muslim" you substituted "hispanic" or "jew" or "african-american". Alarmist? Racist? Hostile? Got it in one. Now how is structuring the narrative around muslims any different? (There's a classic saying in newsroom culture: "if it bleeds, it leads" -- which is why for the past week our news has been saturated with the muslims are coming! Be afraid! rhetoric. It doesn't sell newspapers to point out that there are around 2 billion muslims world-wide, of whom maybe 20,000 are active jihadis in AQ and Da'esh; the rest are just ordinary folks who are happy to get along, and overall they've killed vastly fewer people on American or European soil than home-grown terrorists over the past five decades.) NB: expecting downvotes, because nothing triggers a witch-hunt like a media panic over [insert terrifying incomprehensible foreign threat here].
- ps4fanboy 11y agoImagine this same article but substituting it for startup hipsters. Jacking up the rent driving their illegal startup buses. I would argue most of the people who are for these immigrant communities are also against the kind of gentrification happening in the bay.
- bjourne 11y agoThere has been very similar articles "in tone" about Kiryas Joel. F.e http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/nyregion/kiryas-joel-a-village-with-the-numbers-not-the-image-of-the-poorest-place.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/nyregion/kiryas-joel-a-vil..., http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/09/nyregion/a-hasidic-village-gets-a-lesson-in-bare-knuckled-politicking.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/09/nyregion/a-hasidic-village...
- seivan 11y agoEither you're dishonest with "maybe 20 000 active jihadists" or just unaware. But that claim is laughable given the amount of support Jihadists have. You talk about News Room culture, but you miss there are two sides to it and now you're Chamberlain. ;-) Also I am pretty sure Jews, African-Americans and Hispanics don't got doctrine that tells them to kill apostates. A better comparison would be Westboro Baptist Church. Except they are what, odd 20 people? Islamofascists numbers reach the millions, obviously not all are active jihadists. But many support and finance. This isn't media panic. This is experience before the media even got attention to it. EDIT: Yeah I saw the Wiki page just like you did. I was trying to serve a point. facepalm
- kshatrea 11y agoAs a citizen of a country with many such cities[0], I would advise the people of this city to relax, nothing bad is going to happen. The only real issue most Muslims have with any non-Muslim country is that it is a general perception that they're Muslim first[1](just one reference but I can get more). For e.g. in India, most Muslims hate Israel[2] even though Palestine has nothing to do with India's foreign policy objectives except at the UN (which is its own story). As for the liquor ban, that kind of thing happens in many places. For e.g. in India an Indian state (Maharashtra), banned beef, even though it is only the cow that is sacred in Hinduism and one can slaughter buffaloes. I am not Muslim and I don't like religion as a concept, but as long as the act of violence is not perpetrated, I don't see what the residents of Hamtramck, MI have to worry about. [0] http://islamicpopulation.blogspot.se/2010/07/indian-cities-with-highest-muslim.html http://islamicpopulation.blogspot.se/2010/07/indian-cities-w... [1] http://baltimorechronicle.com/muslimsfirst_nov02.shtml http://baltimorechronicle.com/muslimsfirst_nov02.shtml [2] http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-call-me-muslim/2010/01/10/israel-and-indian-muslims-where-we-stand/ http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-call-me-muslim/2010/01/...
- acqq 11y ago> As a citizen of a country with many such cities (India) (...) relax, nothing bad is going to happen Probably not in the mostly Hindu areas (India is huge), but Pakistan was made in order to have Muslims rule over the part of the former India, "About half a million Muslims and Hindus were killed in communal riots following the partition of British India. Millions of Muslims living in India and Hindus and Sikhs living in Pakistan emigrated in one of the most colossal transfers of population in the modern era" and the violence didn't stop after Pakistan was formed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Pakistan_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Pakistan_relatio... "violent partition (...) three major wars, one undeclared war and (...) numerous armed skirmishes and military standoffs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide And the atom bombs prepared on both sides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_we... And you are absolutely right that "the only real issue most Muslims have with any non-Muslim country is that it is a general perception that they're Muslim first." Unfortunately, Islam has its political component still considered as the inseparable part of the religion.
- Mithaldu 11y agoAre there ways to counter the calls for prayer legally? I'd imagine they violate some noise disturbance laws, especially if they're played right next to people's apartments. Mainly curious on that point because i'd consider going that way against a church down the road if they'd jangle their bells more than once or twice a week.
- sageikosa 11y agoOne would imagine that local ordinances would change to accommodate.
- seivan 11y agoNot sure how the bells work in US churches, but here they actually serve a purpose, they ring the bells for each hour until 8PM. Around 12 (noon) they have this little jingle that tells you it's 12 in case you can't keep track of "rings". That way you can either count the "rings" for every hour or just count how many it was since you heard the jingle. I actually do the latter after 12 for "faux" Pomodoro.
- Mithaldu 11y agoI live in hannover (de) and as far as i can tell, the bells on this particular church go whenever they damn well please. (Probably related to events there, weddings or such.)
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- yawgmoth 11y agoThis is indeed a quasi-racist (should be bigoted, not racist), fearmongering article. There are huge neighborhoods of Dearborn, MI and Dearborn Heights, MI that are overwhelmingly Muslim. Any gripes brought up by the Muslim residents of Hamtramck have nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with their individual attitudes.
- imaginenore 11y agoHow is it racist in any way? What race are you talking about? Islam is a religion, not a skin color.
- yawgmoth 11y agoBringing up Majewski's perspectives without considering where they are relative to others is problematic. People are tense? The group of people to which Majewski is referring are vocal and don't represent Hamtramck as a whole (nor any other cities in SE Michigan with large Arab and Muslim populations). For many (myself not included, thanks), there is a tremendous conflation of Islam and Arab. Simply look at the comments in the OP. (edit: But, you are right, bigoted would be a more accurate choice of wording.) This article will certainly serve as reinforcement for people who are already afraid of Islam and WaPo knows this (which is, for me, ultimately why I find this article bigoted). This is extrapolated journalism drawn from a tiny modicum of truth, which I find irresponsible. Unfortunately, this is the status quo in American media.
- panglott 11y agoWhat is the fear that is being mongered here? The community's demographics are changing, and different people have different feelings about that. Some community buildings are being repurposed. Oh noes will the people still eat pierogis. Some residents defaced some signs with racist stuff. But honestly, I'm more afraid of racist white people than Bengali immigrants =/
- rawTruthHurts 11y agoRemember, religious people are always the victims. Oh my, how could anybody get offended by their position on social politics or anything related to the real world in general? Philistines!
- dang 11y agoReligious flamewars are not welcome on Hacker News. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10614103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10614103 and marked it off-topic.
- fwapost 11y ago> “The Polish people think we were invading them,” said Masud Khan, one of the mosque’s leaders, recalling that time in an interview earlier this month. “We were a big threat to their religion and culture. Now their days are gone.” He sounds like a conquer gloating over the corpses of the vanquished. > The mosque’s leaders plan to put a minaret — a spire — on the building and use it to continue broadcasting a call to prayer five times a day. Being woken up at sunrise by the azhan: one of the many joys diversity and multiculturalism have to offer.
- panglott 11y agoHe does? The community was once 90% Polish Catholic, until those folks left for wealthier suburbs. What part of that sounds like a gloating conquest?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]