5 ms·

It’s fascinating how various cultures modify their children’s bodies…also a bit unsettling, since it infringes on a person’s bodily integrity before they’re eve

It’s fascinating how various cultures modify their children’s bodies…also a bit unsettling, since it infringes on a person’s bodily integrity before they’re even properly a person. I find infant circumcision little different from head-binding or foot-binding—but that is a rather unpopular opinion here in the US.

chimeracoder 11y ago
> I find infant circumcision little different from head-binding or foot-binding—but that is a rather unpopular opinion here in the US. Circumcision is a lightning rod issue partly because it is often performed for religious reasons. One thing that's often overlooked when it's discussed, though: if the child grows up to be a woman (ie, transgender woman assigned male at birth), being circumcised makes gender reassignment surgery more complicated and difficult. It's still possible, but the doctors have less to work with for reconstruction.
- anon4 11y ago
  Circumcision and transgender issues in one sentence? You like playing with fire, don't you :) .
ars 11y ago
Why do people only worry about physical body integrity on an infant? Parents have a HUGE impact on children mentally, yet no one makes much of a fuss about that. At the end of the day parents have full control over how their children will turn out, both mentally and physically. We should only be concerned about the end result: Are they doing good, or bad. Nebulous concepts like "bodily integrity" are meaningless.
- evincarofautumn 11y ago
  I generally agree with you, though I don’t think “bodily integrity” is nebulous at all. I don’t only worry about the physical—I just didn’t mention the mental because the article is about body modification.
  - ars 11y ago
    My point is don't worry about "bodily integrity", worry "are they doing good, bad, or neutral". Obviously we would see squishing a head as bad, but there are other modifications that are not so cut and dry. > I find infant circumcision little different from head-binding or foot-binding Why? Using my principle, circumcision is neutral, it does no harm, and has a slight benefit. But foot-binding does clear harm. How do you justify considering them the same?
    - evincarofautumn 11y ago
      I mainly care about bodily integrity because I want very much for people to have the freedom of self-determination. Fostering that freedom seems like an instance of good parenting. > Why? Using my principle, circumcision is neutral, it does no harm, and has a slight benefit. But foot-binding does clear harm. How do you justify considering them the same? They are different degrees of severity of doing something to a person’s body that they can’t understand or consent to. With circumcision, there’s rarely a medical reason to do it, and it can have negative effects on sexual function, so I assess it as a net negative.
      - Natsu 11y ago
        I've never seen a proper study assessing sexual function, only hearsay, are you aware of a proper study on that? Whereas I have seen studies suggesting that it helps prevent infections and even transmission of AIDS. For example: Source: http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ "There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe. WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be considered an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention in countries and regions with heterosexual epidemics, high HIV and low male circumcision prevalence. Male circumcision provides only partial protection, and therefore should be only one element of a comprehensive HIV prevention package which includes: the provision of HIV testing and counseling services; treatment for sexually transmitted infections; the promotion of safer sex practices; the provision of male and female condoms and promotion of their correct and consistent use."
netheril96 11y ago
> It’s fascinating how various cultures modify their children’s bodies…also a bit unsettling, since it infringes on a person’s bodily integrity before they’re even properly a person. But when that person becomes a proper person and wants to make a decision to modify his/her own body, the opportunity may have been lost.

chimeracoder 11y ago

> I find infant circumcision little different from head-binding or foot-binding—but that is a rather unpopular opinion here in the US. Circumcision is a lightning rod issue partly because it is often performed for religious reasons. One thing that's often overlooked when it's discussed, though: if the child grows up to be a woman (ie, transgender woman assigned male at birth), being circumcised makes gender reassignment surgery more complicated and difficult. It's still possible, but the doctors have less to work with for reconstruction.

anon4 11y ago
Circumcision and transgender issues in one sentence? You like playing with fire, don't you :) .

ars 11y ago

Why do people only worry about physical body integrity on an infant? Parents have a HUGE impact on children mentally, yet no one makes much of a fuss about that. At the end of the day parents have full control over how their children will turn out, both mentally and physically. We should only be concerned about the end result: Are they doing good, or bad. Nebulous concepts like "bodily integrity" are meaningless.

evincarofautumn 11y ago
I generally agree with you, though I don’t think “bodily integrity” is nebulous at all. I don’t only worry about the physical—I just didn’t mention the mental because the article is about body modification.
- ars 11y ago
  My point is don't worry about "bodily integrity", worry "are they doing good, bad, or neutral". Obviously we would see squishing a head as bad, but there are other modifications that are not so cut and dry. > I find infant circumcision little different from head-binding or foot-binding Why? Using my principle, circumcision is neutral, it does no harm, and has a slight benefit. But foot-binding does clear harm. How do you justify considering them the same?
  - evincarofautumn 11y ago
    I mainly care about bodily integrity because I want very much for people to have the freedom of self-determination. Fostering that freedom seems like an instance of good parenting. > Why? Using my principle, circumcision is neutral, it does no harm, and has a slight benefit. But foot-binding does clear harm. How do you justify considering them the same? They are different degrees of severity of doing something to a person’s body that they can’t understand or consent to. With circumcision, there’s rarely a medical reason to do it, and it can have negative effects on sexual function, so I assess it as a net negative.
    - Natsu 11y ago
      I've never seen a proper study assessing sexual function, only hearsay, are you aware of a proper study on that? Whereas I have seen studies suggesting that it helps prevent infections and even transmission of AIDS. For example: Source: http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ "There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe. WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be considered an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention in countries and regions with heterosexual epidemics, high HIV and low male circumcision prevalence. Male circumcision provides only partial protection, and therefore should be only one element of a comprehensive HIV prevention package which includes: the provision of HIV testing and counseling services; treatment for sexually transmitted infections; the promotion of safer sex practices; the provision of male and female condoms and promotion of their correct and consistent use."

netheril96 11y ago

> It’s fascinating how various cultures modify their children’s bodies…also a bit unsettling, since it infringes on a person’s bodily integrity before they’re even properly a person. But when that person becomes a proper person and wants to make a decision to modify his/her own body, the opportunity may have been lost.