4 ms·

Dude. Microsoft lost an anti-trust trial, at least partially due to the Extreme Marketing of IE. We're allowed to read some ethically borderline behavior into

by bediger 17y ago

Dude. Microsoft lost an anti-trust trial, at least partially due to the Extreme Marketing of IE. We're allowed to read some ethically borderline behavior into that period's PM's resume. I mean, I like Microsoft and Windows as much as the next guy, but geez, as soon as IE had 90%+ marketshare (due, lest we forget, in some measure to illegal behavior) Microsoft just let it stagnate. That alone should clue you in to how Microsoft feels about web browsers.

nostrademons 17y ago
Again, don't project the sins of Ballmer onto the individual contributors and managers responsible for getting IE out the door. I really doubt that the IE team was responsible for the decision to disband the IE team, or that they made the decision to bundle it in with Windows. Those sort of strategic decisions usually get made by top-level executives. I actually hate Microsoft. A lot. I work in web UIs, and the bulk of my frustrations come from having to work around IE's shortcomings. My personal computer has been Microsoft-free for the past 2-3 years, as well as a period in college, and in-between was only used as a Windows host for a Linux virtual machine. I try to avoid using Microsoft products whenever possible, I hate the company and would never think of working for them, and I would be rather glad to see them broken up. But I try not to let my feelings about the company color the way I see the accomplishments of individual employees of the company. And whatever my personal feelings, the IE team accomplished a lot between 1995 and 2002. Netscape was as dominant in 1995 as IE was in 2002; in those 7 years, their positions reversed. You can claim it was due to extreme marketing, but I was more than capable of downloading Netscape for myself, I was a die-hard Netscape fan up until 2000, and yet eventually I had to admit that they lost because they were stupid and the IE team was better. Netscape 4.7 was slow, it had poor standards compliance, it crashed a lot, and it refused to view a lot of really popular websites. Netscape 6.0 had an incredibly crummy interface that seemed like it was designed to take you to their portal page and trap you there. IE kept getting faster and more stable from IE3 to IE6, and it introduced innovations like XMLHttpRequest that later formed the cornerstone for GMail and Maps.
- whatusername 17y ago
  Yes. Thankyou. We can look at IE now and criticize. But IE 5/Mac was awesome. IE 5.5/6 on Windows were so much better than netscape. MS might have done some dodgy stuff to get them there - but at the same time they delivered the goods technically.
- berkun 17y ago
  Thank you nostrademons for giving my soul the benefit of the doubt :)

by bediger 17y ago

nostrademons 17y ago

Again, don't project the sins of Ballmer onto the individual contributors and managers responsible for getting IE out the door. I really doubt that the IE team was responsible for the decision to disband the IE team, or that they made the decision to bundle it in with Windows. Those sort of strategic decisions usually get made by top-level executives. I actually hate Microsoft. A lot. I work in web UIs, and the bulk of my frustrations come from having to work around IE's shortcomings. My personal computer has been Microsoft-free for the past 2-3 years, as well as a period in college, and in-between was only used as a Windows host for a Linux virtual machine. I try to avoid using Microsoft products whenever possible, I hate the company and would never think of working for them, and I would be rather glad to see them broken up. But I try not to let my feelings about the company color the way I see the accomplishments of individual employees of the company. And whatever my personal feelings, the IE team accomplished a lot between 1995 and 2002. Netscape was as dominant in 1995 as IE was in 2002; in those 7 years, their positions reversed. You can claim it was due to extreme marketing, but I was more than capable of downloading Netscape for myself, I was a die-hard Netscape fan up until 2000, and yet eventually I had to admit that they lost because they were stupid and the IE team was better. Netscape 4.7 was slow, it had poor standards compliance, it crashed a lot, and it refused to view a lot of really popular websites. Netscape 6.0 had an incredibly crummy interface that seemed like it was designed to take you to their portal page and trap you there. IE kept getting faster and more stable from IE3 to IE6, and it introduced innovations like XMLHttpRequest that later formed the cornerstone for GMail and Maps.

whatusername 17y ago
Yes. Thankyou. We can look at IE now and criticize. But IE 5/Mac was awesome. IE 5.5/6 on Windows were so much better than netscape. MS might have done some dodgy stuff to get them there - but at the same time they delivered the goods technically.
berkun 17y ago
Thank you nostrademons for giving my soul the benefit of the doubt :)