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There is a significant difference between private companies collecting data and the state doing wholesale surveillance. I don't particularly care for the first

There is a significant difference between private companies collecting data and the state doing wholesale surveillance. I don't particularly care for the first one, I do very much for the second. These are separate concerns. If we can't have data-driven gadgets because the state may get that data, we're solving the wrong problem: we need to get rid of the state.

cryptoz 11y ago
> There is a significant difference between private companies collecting data and the state doing wholesale surveillance. I used to agree, but don't we know for certain that this is false now? With the Snowden documents, we know that the USA government, along with others, knows how valuable these private companies' data stores are and will hack their way in so that they can get access (if they're refused when they first ask politely). I no longer think there's much real difference at all between the private companies collecting the data and then actively/passively sending it to the government, vs. the government doing all the collecting and analyzing themselves. And the point that I was trying to make is that even if the private companies can collect and analyze the data safely (they can't), that still sets up a society that is willing to be watched. That is the hardest part for totalitarian governments to overcome; if you hand the USA or China or Russian governments a silver platter of a willing population that will accept the surveillance from one entity, they will accept it from another. That's a dangerous place to be.
- mahyarm 11y ago
  A catchy way to say it: If you build it, the governments will take it.
fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
>There is a significant difference between private companies collecting data and the state doing wholesale surveillance. Not under the current rules where the data are treated as "business records" and subject not only to spying while en route, but also to administrative subpoena and all sorts of other "legal" and questionably legal collection methods employed by various divisions of the state. >we need to get rid of the state. For sure, the part that wants to collect all the data needs to go.

cryptoz 11y ago

> There is a significant difference between private companies collecting data and the state doing wholesale surveillance. I used to agree, but don't we know for certain that this is false now? With the Snowden documents, we know that the USA government, along with others, knows how valuable these private companies' data stores are and will hack their way in so that they can get access (if they're refused when they first ask politely). I no longer think there's much real difference at all between the private companies collecting the data and then actively/passively sending it to the government, vs. the government doing all the collecting and analyzing themselves. And the point that I was trying to make is that even if the private companies can collect and analyze the data safely (they can't), that still sets up a society that is willing to be watched. That is the hardest part for totalitarian governments to overcome; if you hand the USA or China or Russian governments a silver platter of a willing population that will accept the surveillance from one entity, they will accept it from another. That's a dangerous place to be.

mahyarm 11y ago
A catchy way to say it: If you build it, the governments will take it.

fnordfnordfnord 11y ago

>There is a significant difference between private companies collecting data and the state doing wholesale surveillance. Not under the current rules where the data are treated as "business records" and subject not only to spying while en route, but also to administrative subpoena and all sorts of other "legal" and questionably legal collection methods employed by various divisions of the state. >we need to get rid of the state. For sure, the part that wants to collect all the data needs to go.