5 ms·

General purpose analog computer

41 points by ch 11y ago

malux85 11y ago
It is my dream one day - to sell my startup, and get some form of mechanical computer, and have it in my house as an art display. I would like to integrate it somehow to my existing systems - so that, no matter how little it can contribute, it can click and clack away. I shall name him Switch
- jonsen 11y ago
  Wouldn't Clutch be a better name? I mean if you litterally mean mechanical.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Switches were mechanical long before they were electrical. And I don't mean 'electro-mechanical', no just mechanical. Think of where the name 'railroad switch' comes from. That lever by the side of the road is the switch (the thing itself is called a 'point').
- zokier 11y ago
  Mechanical vs electronic is pretty much orthogonal to analog vs digital. I would consider slide rule for example analog mechanical, while abacus digital mechanical.
JonnieCache 11y ago
If this interests you, you may enjoy modular synthesizers, eg: http://www.makenoisemusic.com/maths.shtml http://www.makenoisemusic.com/maths.shtml
- LeoPanthera 11y ago
  I recommend the docu-movie "I dream of wires". I think it's on Netflix.
benten10 11y ago
Introduced by Claude Shannon, the father of modern information theory, as we know. Ahhh Shannon. The guy who invented the entire field of digital freaking electronics for his master's thesis [1], and then moved on to even greater things. This was it seems five years after his Master's thesis. He was 25 when he proposed this. The bane of every grad student. "Shannon invented digital electronics for master's thesis. Come up with anything interesting yet?" Add to this, he also appears to have been located at Medford. The shame. What have y'all been upto lately, Boston/Cambridge area grad students? : ( I wonder if our obsession with profits and quick returns and 'hacker culture' is distracting people like him from making similarly great contributions? [1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Shannon_MS_Thesis.pdf http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Shannon_MS_Thesis.pdf
- auvi 11y ago
  As Peter Thiel said, "We wanted flying cars, instead we got 140 characters."
- jamesrcole 11y ago
  I always find it a bit surprising that Shannon is remembered far more for Communication Theory than his Master's thesis (which I think was very significant). It seems to me that everything about universities and funding these days is very conservative, making it quite difficult to do the kind of research that can lead to great contributions.
maljx 11y ago
Analog computer I saw in Berlin a few weeks ago, very cool stuff - https://twitter.com/maljx/status/650690241574080512 https://twitter.com/maljx/status/650690241574080512
gshubert17 11y ago
I worked with a medium-sized analog computer in the mid 1970s. It may have had around 20 op-amps, covered a desktop, and used an HP XY-plotter for output. I could set up different models of differential equations. I remember simple harmonic oscillators and predator-prey models [0]. I was studying physics rather than computer science and didn't then know about Turing computability. I found the GE BASIC timesharing system easier to program and use than the analog computer, but the graphical output of the analog system was much nicer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio...
aswanson 11y ago
I have been wondering recently if analog computing would make more sense for certain search algorithms, like protein folding simulations. Basically, let a set of potentials be placed in the op amp setting representing position, and let them miller integrate the surronding charges and watch it evolve. Basically, physical modelling directly. Im not sure of the state of analog device precision, drift, and temp stability these days but it might be worth a try.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Take a look at these, esp math coprocessor: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_bl_488.html#c6701962 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_... The trick is using analog circuits for just what it's good for. The digital does the rest. Need to have them integrated well. Good news is analog works well with inexpensive process nodes like 350nm and digital stuff on them is inexpensive. Tekmos even can integrate 90nm digital with 350nm analog plus MPW's to keep things cheaper.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  If you can keep the chains short enough and the noise down then analog can solve some things that you'd have a hard time solving digitally. Even mechanical computation has some unique problem solving capabilities.
angdis 11y ago
Every once in a while, I hear about FPAA's (field programmable _analog_ arrays), but the concept never seems to take off despite serious efforts, even by Motorola in the 90's. Isn't the GPAC the same thing? I suppose the reason these aren't popular is because the use-cases are rather narrow (or at least usually implementable with an ordinary digital approach)?
- ch 11y ago
  Well the GPAC is a model of computing, much like a Turing machine, so they are not the same thing, though certainly this model influences the work of FPAA's.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  By not take-off, I'm guessing you just mean there's not many people buying these: http://www.anadigm.com/fpaa.asp http://www.anadigm.com/fpaa.asp
nickpsecurity 11y ago
There's been lots of practical work on this including a math coprocessor with 100x claimed acceleration. I posted a list of links below for general purpose analog: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_bl_488.html#c6701962 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_... The field has more potential than most think. Needs more research. One angle I thought about was applying it to neural networks somehow. Turns out there's a Deep Learning company doing that right now. ;) Many possibilities left to explore.
- aswanson 11y ago
  I thought I was the only one think along these lines. This field has incredible potential...I honestly think there is an Intel-level (or greater) company waiting to be built out of this line of research.

41 points by ch 11y ago

It is my dream one day - to sell my startup, and get some form of mechanical computer, and have it in my house as an art display. I would like to integrate it somehow to my existing systems - so that, no matter how little it can contribute, it can click and clack away. I shall name him Switch

jonsen 11y ago
Wouldn't Clutch be a better name? I mean if you litterally mean mechanical.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Switches were mechanical long before they were electrical. And I don't mean 'electro-mechanical', no just mechanical. Think of where the name 'railroad switch' comes from. That lever by the side of the road is the switch (the thing itself is called a 'point').
zokier 11y ago
Mechanical vs electronic is pretty much orthogonal to analog vs digital. I would consider slide rule for example analog mechanical, while abacus digital mechanical.

JonnieCache 11y ago

If this interests you, you may enjoy modular synthesizers, eg: http://www.makenoisemusic.com/maths.shtml http://www.makenoisemusic.com/maths.shtml

LeoPanthera 11y ago
I recommend the docu-movie "I dream of wires". I think it's on Netflix.

benten10 11y ago

Introduced by Claude Shannon, the father of modern information theory, as we know. Ahhh Shannon. The guy who invented the entire field of digital freaking electronics for his master's thesis [1], and then moved on to even greater things. This was it seems five years after his Master's thesis. He was 25 when he proposed this. The bane of every grad student. "Shannon invented digital electronics for master's thesis. Come up with anything interesting yet?" Add to this, he also appears to have been located at Medford. The shame. What have y'all been upto lately, Boston/Cambridge area grad students? : ( I wonder if our obsession with profits and quick returns and 'hacker culture' is distracting people like him from making similarly great contributions? [1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Shannon_MS_Thesis.pdf http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Shannon_MS_Thesis.pdf

auvi 11y ago
As Peter Thiel said, "We wanted flying cars, instead we got 140 characters."
jamesrcole 11y ago
I always find it a bit surprising that Shannon is remembered far more for Communication Theory than his Master's thesis (which I think was very significant). It seems to me that everything about universities and funding these days is very conservative, making it quite difficult to do the kind of research that can lead to great contributions.

maljx 11y ago

Analog computer I saw in Berlin a few weeks ago, very cool stuff - https://twitter.com/maljx/status/650690241574080512 https://twitter.com/maljx/status/650690241574080512

gshubert17 11y ago

I worked with a medium-sized analog computer in the mid 1970s. It may have had around 20 op-amps, covered a desktop, and used an HP XY-plotter for output. I could set up different models of differential equations. I remember simple harmonic oscillators and predator-prey models [0]. I was studying physics rather than computer science and didn't then know about Turing computability. I found the GE BASIC timesharing system easier to program and use than the analog computer, but the graphical output of the analog system was much nicer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio...

aswanson 11y ago

I have been wondering recently if analog computing would make more sense for certain search algorithms, like protein folding simulations. Basically, let a set of potentials be placed in the op amp setting representing position, and let them miller integrate the surronding charges and watch it evolve. Basically, physical modelling directly. Im not sure of the state of analog device precision, drift, and temp stability these days but it might be worth a try.

nickpsecurity 11y ago
Take a look at these, esp math coprocessor: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_bl_488.html#c6701962 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_... The trick is using analog circuits for just what it's good for. The digital does the rest. Need to have them integrated well. Good news is analog works well with inexpensive process nodes like 350nm and digital stuff on them is inexpensive. Tekmos even can integrate 90nm digital with 350nm analog plus MPW's to keep things cheaper.
jacquesm 11y ago
If you can keep the chains short enough and the noise down then analog can solve some things that you'd have a hard time solving digitally. Even mechanical computation has some unique problem solving capabilities.

angdis 11y ago

Every once in a while, I hear about FPAA's (field programmable _analog_ arrays), but the concept never seems to take off despite serious efforts, even by Motorola in the 90's. Isn't the GPAC the same thing? I suppose the reason these aren't popular is because the use-cases are rather narrow (or at least usually implementable with an ordinary digital approach)?

ch 11y ago
Well the GPAC is a model of computing, much like a Turing machine, so they are not the same thing, though certainly this model influences the work of FPAA's.
nickpsecurity 11y ago
By not take-off, I'm guessing you just mean there's not many people buying these: http://www.anadigm.com/fpaa.asp http://www.anadigm.com/fpaa.asp

nickpsecurity 11y ago

There's been lots of practical work on this including a math coprocessor with 100x claimed acceleration. I posted a list of links below for general purpose analog: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_bl_488.html#c6701962 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/friday_squid_... The field has more potential than most think. Needs more research. One angle I thought about was applying it to neural networks somehow. Turns out there's a Deep Learning company doing that right now. ;) Many possibilities left to explore.

aswanson 11y ago
I thought I was the only one think along these lines. This field has incredible potential...I honestly think there is an Intel-level (or greater) company waiting to be built out of this line of research.