7 ms·

Jawbone Lays Off 60, 15% of Staff Globally, Closes NY Office

65 points by cgoodmac 11y ago

braythwayt 11y ago
My uninformed opinion is that Apple Watch will suck the middle out of the fitness tracking market, leaving room only for specialized players (Fitbit, Garmin) and the very low end (Xiomi). Of course, Apple may not end up dominating watches. But their entry “mainstreamizes” the idea of a general-purpose device also being your fitness tracker, and once that idea takes hold, people will stop buying fitness trackers unless they have a very specific prosumer need. Fitness trackers are going the way of music players, cameras, and mapping devices.
- inrisk 11y ago
  I would definitely agree with you in terms of the Apple Watch sucking out the competition in the fitness tracking market, but would you not say that Jawbone was in the same league as Fitbit?
  - braythwayt 11y ago
    The marketplace seems to think that Fitbit are a fitness tracking company, while Jawbone is an electronics company that happens to make fitness trackers alongside things like bluetooth speakers.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    I personally always considered both as "BLE got popular but no one has figured out yet how to make a decent smartwatch" kind of devices.
    - tl 11y ago
      As someone who has owned a Charge HR and an Apple Watch, I'd say the Charge / Charge HR / Surge qualify as decent smartwatches in a way that doesn't apply to Fitbit's lower-end or previous devices.
- cmarschner 11y ago
  Apple sells at a totally different pricepoint which is way off mainstream. So at least atm. they are catering a different market. Also, smart watches on the market may just be too ugly (including Apple's). I think there's still a lot of opportunity to partner with a major watchmaker like Swatch which owns half of the world's watch brands but doesn't have a clue about the tech.
  - Zombieball 11y ago
    I think removing the term "watch" and braythwayt's sentiment holds. Doesn't the iPhone offer much of the pedometer features activity trackers offer? I am also uninformed and haven't read any sort of comparison. But I wonder if Apple users realize the features available in the health app?
    - braythwayt 11y ago
      The phone does not currently have the heart rate function, so it’s hard to turn it into a complete health product. You need a chest strap, or a hat with heart rate function, and now you’re back to a wearable accessory for the phone. I’d guess the other way: What if Apple ends up putting a GPS and a phone in the watch? Then you buy an iPod Touch-like device as an accessory screen for the watch, instead of a watch as an accessory for the phone.
      - Swizec 11y ago
        > What if Apple ends up putting a GPS and a phone in the watch? Then I still won't be able to text, which is 90% of what most people do on a modern smartphone. That and watch videos. I wonder how many people would even notice if Apple removed the Phone app from the iPhone ... Oh and I assume taking selfies with your wrist would be hard too. I tried to position my wrist like that right now and my elbow wasn't happy.
        braythwayt 11y ago
        It’s technically possible to text on the Watch, but mostly you text back variations of “yes,” “no,” or “ttyl.” Which is terrible. Unless you don’t want to text with someone, in which case you have an out: “I’d have replied to your question detail, but my hands were full and I could only reply on the watch."
- revelation 11y ago
  I think your market segmentation is somewhat off. The fitness tracking part of Fitbit has just been utterly commoditized; every smartwatch now does all the steps and sleep tracking, too, so they've subsumed that functionality while Fitbits smartwatch offerings are inferior. Meanwhile, Garmin produces actual fitness trackers for the sports market, with full on GPS integration and a wide range of sensor support for stuff like power meters. Fitbits only offering here was only released in 2015, the Fitbit surge, their only GPS capable watch. But frankly, the price point is way out there, it has no support for swimming (so really the only market segment left for them here are runners) and their software story around sports enthusiasts is just laughable. They have no fighting chance against someone like Garmin, who dominates this market.
ryandamm 11y ago
I've heard from a friend at fitbit that jawbone, Nike, and others all licensed their tech from some professor's company, whereas fitbit developed their own in house... And evidently the licensor didn't keep pace with tech, but also didn't allow innovation on top of the stack. This is second hand hearsay, take it for what it's worth.
- robbiet480 11y ago
  It sounds like you are talking about MotionX [1] [1]: https://www.motionx.com/ https://www.motionx.com/
- rasz_pl 11y ago
  Fitbit didnt exactly do everything in house. I know they contracted Christopher White, the other half of Elecia Whites embedded.fm podcast and consulting firm logicalelegance, to do embedded engineering for them.
srunni 11y ago
From What Went Wrong at Jawbone (https://www.theinformation.com/what-went-wrong-at-jawbone https://www.theinformation.com/what-went-wrong-at-jawbone ; subscription only): * Employee doubts (lack of direction, CEO frequently absent during fundraising, ex-CFO alleged that CEO misappropriated funds for personal use) * Manufacturing troubles (low manufacturing yield due to unique design, high product return rates) * PE firm Rizvi Traverse backed out of expected $175M funding round after first $25M payment
- 106121 11y ago
  Anecdotally, the jawbone wristbands have been very unreliable among my friends, multiple devices failed within a year. Customer service has been great, they just ship you out a new one, no hassle. But you can't make that up in volume.
  - srunni 11y ago
    More details on issues with the UP: > Instead of using a strap attached to a small pod containing the electronics, the hardware was placed throughout the length of the bendable wristband. Spreading the electronics out made the device look like a bracelet, which fit with Jawbone’s goal of making electronics that doubled as jewelry. > That created problems in manufacturing. In initial manufacturing efforts, the device’s electronics were destroyed when hot rubber was injected into the mold. Over time, the process improved, but not enough to convince everyone that the device was ready to be shipped to consumers. When devices broke, it was difficult to decipher the reason because the electronics were encased in rubber.
  - josephjrobison 11y ago
    Yup I got the Up24 and it worked great for two months before it broke down physically. They shipped me a new Up 2 but the design of it is just so weird that it doesn't work. Customer support is ok, but not the best. Wouldn't trust their tech in the future.
jpatel3 11y ago
so distorted headline..doesn't say how many employees they have, 15% staff Globally is part of 60?
- funkyy 11y ago
  15% = 60 100% ~ 400 So global workforce was 400. 15% equals to 60 employees.
ninguem2 11y ago
What is this thing #.jgiw2z:ikKk in the URL?
- meddlepal 11y ago
  Referrer code maybe?
  - srunni 11y ago
    Yeah, it's a fragment identifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragment_identifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragment_identifier) used to track shares/referrals.
vosper 11y ago
I hate to be that guy, but they've taken $820m in funding to make Bluetooth speakers (now a commoditised market) and fitness trackers. I know hardware is expensive, and they've been pioneers, too, but that is SO MUCH money to only have some a handful of gizmos to show for it.
- dmix 11y ago
  Apple paid $3.2B for Beats, so I'm guessing the VCs thought Jawbone might be 3-4x the value of Beats? That's a very risky bet indeed.
  - n0us 11y ago
    I honestly find Jawbone products to be much higher quality products than Beats. Their design aesthetic seems to fit in with Apple more than Beats as well imo. I have a Big Jambox and while it isn't an audiophile's dream, the sound is pretty good and the battery life lasts forever. Its not bad as a speaker phone as well. Worth every dollar I paid for it. I'm surprised I don't see more advertisements for their products, that seems to be the way that beats got popular because it certainly isn't price or audio quality. Edit: forgot to add the point of this comment, I wonder if there were ever talks of a buyout by Apple or if not why they weren't considered/didn't go through.
sumitgt 11y ago
Its a shame. Wish there were alternatives that worked for me. Nothing else in the market has a comparable "Smart Alarm" like the Jawbone UP devices.
- nirvdrum 11y ago
  The new Microsoft Band has a smart alarm function that on paper sounds an awful lot like the Jawbone UP's. Having never seen the latter in person, I can't say if they're identical. But it could be worth looking into if that's a killer feature for you.
  - sumitgt 11y ago
    Yeah, I did consider that. However the price makes me wanna handle it with extra care. Would be worried about getting the screen scratched when I sleep wearing it.
lisianne 11y ago
I have a Garmin vivoactive smartwatch. It has a built-in gps, water proof and it can track my biking, swimming, running and others. The battery comes for a week in one charge. Compared to other players, Fitbit and garmin can hold their territories against Apple Watch. Garmin is also a debt free company with lot of cash in hand. Their dividend yield is 5.2%.

65 points by cgoodmac 11y ago

My uninformed opinion is that Apple Watch will suck the middle out of the fitness tracking market, leaving room only for specialized players (Fitbit, Garmin) and the very low end (Xiomi). Of course, Apple may not end up dominating watches. But their entry “mainstreamizes” the idea of a general-purpose device also being your fitness tracker, and once that idea takes hold, people will stop buying fitness trackers unless they have a very specific prosumer need. Fitness trackers are going the way of music players, cameras, and mapping devices.

inrisk 11y ago
I would definitely agree with you in terms of the Apple Watch sucking out the competition in the fitness tracking market, but would you not say that Jawbone was in the same league as Fitbit?
- braythwayt 11y ago
  The marketplace seems to think that Fitbit are a fitness tracking company, while Jawbone is an electronics company that happens to make fitness trackers alongside things like bluetooth speakers.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  I personally always considered both as "BLE got popular but no one has figured out yet how to make a decent smartwatch" kind of devices.
  - tl 11y ago
    As someone who has owned a Charge HR and an Apple Watch, I'd say the Charge / Charge HR / Surge qualify as decent smartwatches in a way that doesn't apply to Fitbit's lower-end or previous devices.
cmarschner 11y ago
Apple sells at a totally different pricepoint which is way off mainstream. So at least atm. they are catering a different market. Also, smart watches on the market may just be too ugly (including Apple's). I think there's still a lot of opportunity to partner with a major watchmaker like Swatch which owns half of the world's watch brands but doesn't have a clue about the tech.
- Zombieball 11y ago
  I think removing the term "watch" and braythwayt's sentiment holds. Doesn't the iPhone offer much of the pedometer features activity trackers offer? I am also uninformed and haven't read any sort of comparison. But I wonder if Apple users realize the features available in the health app?
  - braythwayt 11y ago
    The phone does not currently have the heart rate function, so it’s hard to turn it into a complete health product. You need a chest strap, or a hat with heart rate function, and now you’re back to a wearable accessory for the phone. I’d guess the other way: What if Apple ends up putting a GPS and a phone in the watch? Then you buy an iPod Touch-like device as an accessory screen for the watch, instead of a watch as an accessory for the phone.
    - Swizec 11y ago
      > What if Apple ends up putting a GPS and a phone in the watch? Then I still won't be able to text, which is 90% of what most people do on a modern smartphone. That and watch videos. I wonder how many people would even notice if Apple removed the Phone app from the iPhone ... Oh and I assume taking selfies with your wrist would be hard too. I tried to position my wrist like that right now and my elbow wasn't happy.
      - braythwayt 11y ago
        It’s technically possible to text on the Watch, but mostly you text back variations of “yes,” “no,” or “ttyl.” Which is terrible. Unless you don’t want to text with someone, in which case you have an out: “I’d have replied to your question detail, but my hands were full and I could only reply on the watch."
revelation 11y ago
I think your market segmentation is somewhat off. The fitness tracking part of Fitbit has just been utterly commoditized; every smartwatch now does all the steps and sleep tracking, too, so they've subsumed that functionality while Fitbits smartwatch offerings are inferior. Meanwhile, Garmin produces actual fitness trackers for the sports market, with full on GPS integration and a wide range of sensor support for stuff like power meters. Fitbits only offering here was only released in 2015, the Fitbit surge, their only GPS capable watch. But frankly, the price point is way out there, it has no support for swimming (so really the only market segment left for them here are runners) and their software story around sports enthusiasts is just laughable. They have no fighting chance against someone like Garmin, who dominates this market.

ryandamm 11y ago

I've heard from a friend at fitbit that jawbone, Nike, and others all licensed their tech from some professor's company, whereas fitbit developed their own in house... And evidently the licensor didn't keep pace with tech, but also didn't allow innovation on top of the stack. This is second hand hearsay, take it for what it's worth.

robbiet480 11y ago
It sounds like you are talking about MotionX [1] [1]: https://www.motionx.com/ https://www.motionx.com/
rasz_pl 11y ago
Fitbit didnt exactly do everything in house. I know they contracted Christopher White, the other half of Elecia Whites embedded.fm podcast and consulting firm logicalelegance, to do embedded engineering for them.

srunni 11y ago

From What Went Wrong at Jawbone (https://www.theinformation.com/what-went-wrong-at-jawbone https://www.theinformation.com/what-went-wrong-at-jawbone ; subscription only): * Employee doubts (lack of direction, CEO frequently absent during fundraising, ex-CFO alleged that CEO misappropriated funds for personal use) * Manufacturing troubles (low manufacturing yield due to unique design, high product return rates) * PE firm Rizvi Traverse backed out of expected $175M funding round after first $25M payment

106121 11y ago
Anecdotally, the jawbone wristbands have been very unreliable among my friends, multiple devices failed within a year. Customer service has been great, they just ship you out a new one, no hassle. But you can't make that up in volume.
- srunni 11y ago
  More details on issues with the UP: > Instead of using a strap attached to a small pod containing the electronics, the hardware was placed throughout the length of the bendable wristband. Spreading the electronics out made the device look like a bracelet, which fit with Jawbone’s goal of making electronics that doubled as jewelry. > That created problems in manufacturing. In initial manufacturing efforts, the device’s electronics were destroyed when hot rubber was injected into the mold. Over time, the process improved, but not enough to convince everyone that the device was ready to be shipped to consumers. When devices broke, it was difficult to decipher the reason because the electronics were encased in rubber.
- josephjrobison 11y ago
  Yup I got the Up24 and it worked great for two months before it broke down physically. They shipped me a new Up 2 but the design of it is just so weird that it doesn't work. Customer support is ok, but not the best. Wouldn't trust their tech in the future.

jpatel3 11y ago

so distorted headline..doesn't say how many employees they have, 15% staff Globally is part of 60?

funkyy 11y ago
15% = 60 100% ~ 400 So global workforce was 400. 15% equals to 60 employees.

ninguem2 11y ago

What is this thing #.jgiw2z:ikKk in the URL?

meddlepal 11y ago
Referrer code maybe?
- srunni 11y ago
  Yeah, it's a fragment identifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragment_identifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragment_identifier) used to track shares/referrals.

vosper 11y ago

I hate to be that guy, but they've taken $820m in funding to make Bluetooth speakers (now a commoditised market) and fitness trackers. I know hardware is expensive, and they've been pioneers, too, but that is SO MUCH money to only have some a handful of gizmos to show for it.

dmix 11y ago
Apple paid $3.2B for Beats, so I'm guessing the VCs thought Jawbone might be 3-4x the value of Beats? That's a very risky bet indeed.
- n0us 11y ago
  I honestly find Jawbone products to be much higher quality products than Beats. Their design aesthetic seems to fit in with Apple more than Beats as well imo. I have a Big Jambox and while it isn't an audiophile's dream, the sound is pretty good and the battery life lasts forever. Its not bad as a speaker phone as well. Worth every dollar I paid for it. I'm surprised I don't see more advertisements for their products, that seems to be the way that beats got popular because it certainly isn't price or audio quality. Edit: forgot to add the point of this comment, I wonder if there were ever talks of a buyout by Apple or if not why they weren't considered/didn't go through.

sumitgt 11y ago

Its a shame. Wish there were alternatives that worked for me. Nothing else in the market has a comparable "Smart Alarm" like the Jawbone UP devices.

nirvdrum 11y ago
The new Microsoft Band has a smart alarm function that on paper sounds an awful lot like the Jawbone UP's. Having never seen the latter in person, I can't say if they're identical. But it could be worth looking into if that's a killer feature for you.
- sumitgt 11y ago
  Yeah, I did consider that. However the price makes me wanna handle it with extra care. Would be worried about getting the screen scratched when I sleep wearing it.

lisianne 11y ago

I have a Garmin vivoactive smartwatch. It has a built-in gps, water proof and it can track my biking, swimming, running and others. The battery comes for a week in one charge. Compared to other players, Fitbit and garmin can hold their territories against Apple Watch. Garmin is also a debt free company with lot of cash in hand. Their dividend yield is 5.2%.