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Yes, because it requires a BEP (http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0001.html http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0001.html) to be added as an "official" extensio

Yes, because it requires a BEP (http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0001.html http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0001.html) to be added as an "official" extension to BitTorrent. Eventually it will happen. I'd hope that by posting it again to HN, someone might add it to their list of things to do in their Infinite Free Time.

J_Darnley 11y ago
I already have many choices of client. All of which can correctly interact with each other. A new client come along and can't do that. Suddenly every other client is broken. Please, this client is broken and needs fixing.
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  >Please, this client is broken and needs fixing Good thing it's open source then. They interact with each other because of BEPs. This client is a prototype and if it's successful you'll have a whole new source of peers. And before PeX was a BEP, before Vuze had a Mainline DHT plugin, it didn't interact with some clients either. Hell, even DHT [1] had to go through the same BEP process. Do you expect all software to start out complete? 1: http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html
  - J_Darnley 11y ago
    > Do you expect all software to start out complete? No. I would expect a new torrent client to start with tracker announces and then peer communication.
  - MichaelGG 11y ago
    By that logic though you can say anything is BitTorrent if it gets a BEP. IPX/SPX networking only? No problem, just needs a BEP! ;) You must admit it's certainly different to start off with a completely incompatible client, vs just a new feature. (I do wish WebTorrent well though.) Do you have any insight into the BT dev community as to whether WebTorrent is likely to be picked up in other clients?
    - voltagex_ 11y ago
      Well yeah, someone could propose IPX/SPX but it'd be unlikely to to get picked up. I have no special insight but I think this is a really cool idea. What I do know is if they don't put up a BEP then it won't go anywhere.
- wmf 11y ago
  WebTorrent isn't trying to embrace and extend BitTorrent. It is impossible for code running in a browser to speak any of the existing BitTorrent protocols, so as a last resort they are running over WebRTC.
the8472 11y ago
adding a BEP will not fix webtorrent, it will still be incompatible with µTP / TCP transport and even more importantly the DHT. It's shoving the responsibility of being compatible onto everyone else because browser environments are inherently crippled, they do not provide access to such simple things as TCP/UDP sockets and thus can never be truly interoperable with protocols that run on them. It smells a bit like embrace-extend-exterminate to me, even if it's not intentional, it currently is a natural consequence of "claim to do X in a browser" without access to the underlying primitives necessary to do X in a standards-compliant manner. In my opinion browsers need to provide thinner abstractions over posix apis (with the appropriate sandboxing and opt-in where necessary).
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  >It smells a bit like embrace-extend-exterminate to me, even if it's not intentional, it currently is a natural consequence of "claim to do X in a browser" without access to the underlying primitives necessary to do X in a standards-compliant manner. Sure, so don't support it. If no one supports the protocol or the app, then it will die. That's an acceptable outcome to some. I'm not saying anyone has to support it, I don't even have any vested interest in it. It's just an interesting project and I've spent far too long today on HackerNews defending it when I could be working on my own projects. To me, it looks more like "Adding Bittorrent into Firefox is pretty much impossible, where can we start instead?" >In my opinion browsers need to provide thinner abstractions over posix apis (with the appropriate sandboxing and opt-in where necessary). NaCl & Emscripten should get you some of the way there.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - the8472 11y ago
    > To me, it looks more like "Adding Bittorrent into Firefox is pretty much impossible, where can we start instead?" Maybe with better browser-native interaction? A house starts with its foundation. And calling it a torrent client while knowing that it isn't interoperable still leaves a bitter taste with me. > NaCl & Emscripten should get you some of the way there. they don't provide sockets or filesystem access as I understand it.

J_Darnley 11y ago

I already have many choices of client. All of which can correctly interact with each other. A new client come along and can't do that. Suddenly every other client is broken. Please, this client is broken and needs fixing.

voltagex_ 11y ago
>Please, this client is broken and needs fixing Good thing it's open source then. They interact with each other because of BEPs. This client is a prototype and if it's successful you'll have a whole new source of peers. And before PeX was a BEP, before Vuze had a Mainline DHT plugin, it didn't interact with some clients either. Hell, even DHT [1] had to go through the same BEP process. Do you expect all software to start out complete? 1: http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html
- J_Darnley 11y ago
  > Do you expect all software to start out complete? No. I would expect a new torrent client to start with tracker announces and then peer communication.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  By that logic though you can say anything is BitTorrent if it gets a BEP. IPX/SPX networking only? No problem, just needs a BEP! ;) You must admit it's certainly different to start off with a completely incompatible client, vs just a new feature. (I do wish WebTorrent well though.) Do you have any insight into the BT dev community as to whether WebTorrent is likely to be picked up in other clients?
  - voltagex_ 11y ago
    Well yeah, someone could propose IPX/SPX but it'd be unlikely to to get picked up. I have no special insight but I think this is a really cool idea. What I do know is if they don't put up a BEP then it won't go anywhere.
wmf 11y ago
WebTorrent isn't trying to embrace and extend BitTorrent. It is impossible for code running in a browser to speak any of the existing BitTorrent protocols, so as a last resort they are running over WebRTC.

the8472 11y ago

adding a BEP will not fix webtorrent, it will still be incompatible with µTP / TCP transport and even more importantly the DHT. It's shoving the responsibility of being compatible onto everyone else because browser environments are inherently crippled, they do not provide access to such simple things as TCP/UDP sockets and thus can never be truly interoperable with protocols that run on them. It smells a bit like embrace-extend-exterminate to me, even if it's not intentional, it currently is a natural consequence of "claim to do X in a browser" without access to the underlying primitives necessary to do X in a standards-compliant manner. In my opinion browsers need to provide thinner abstractions over posix apis (with the appropriate sandboxing and opt-in where necessary).

voltagex_ 11y ago
>It smells a bit like embrace-extend-exterminate to me, even if it's not intentional, it currently is a natural consequence of "claim to do X in a browser" without access to the underlying primitives necessary to do X in a standards-compliant manner. Sure, so don't support it. If no one supports the protocol or the app, then it will die. That's an acceptable outcome to some. I'm not saying anyone has to support it, I don't even have any vested interest in it. It's just an interesting project and I've spent far too long today on HackerNews defending it when I could be working on my own projects. To me, it looks more like "Adding Bittorrent into Firefox is pretty much impossible, where can we start instead?" >In my opinion browsers need to provide thinner abstractions over posix apis (with the appropriate sandboxing and opt-in where necessary). NaCl & Emscripten should get you some of the way there.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- the8472 11y ago
  > To me, it looks more like "Adding Bittorrent into Firefox is pretty much impossible, where can we start instead?" Maybe with better browser-native interaction? A house starts with its foundation. And calling it a torrent client while knowing that it isn't interoperable still leaves a bitter taste with me. > NaCl & Emscripten should get you some of the way there. they don't provide sockets or filesystem access as I understand it.