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>That's not so much the government as it is the companies doing the moving, The companies are doing the moving because the Chinese government pegs its currency

>That's not so much the government as it is the companies doing the moving, The companies are doing the moving because the Chinese government pegs its currency very low and the US allows its currency to float very high. There's nothing at all inevitable about all that ridiculously cheap stuff coming from China or those abandoned factories in Detroit. It's all the result of a set of very deliberate policy choices. >it's all about the cost of labor and in developing countries that cost is a small fraction of a developed one, no matter what their currency policy. If labor were all that mattered all of the new factories would be built in the middle of Bangladesh rather than in the Pearl River Delta. Their labor is far cheaper. Most of the world has lower cost labor. The work goes to China specifically because it has infrastructure of a rich nation but the currency of a poor nation. Even with that there is no requirement for us to trade with them. US elites also made a deliberate choice to drop trade barriers with China despite the repressive nature of the country. Again, because it serves the interests of US oligarchs. >The 'strong dollar' is only strong relative to other currencies What exactly did you think I meant by strong?

jacquesm 11y ago
Bangladesh is definitely the site of a fairly impressive number of new factories. They don't have the tech expertise yet (that the Chinese do have now) so it will be a while but you can expect that they'll be moving up on the ladder soon enough. Lots of textile, shoes and other lower tech stuff already coming out of Bangladesh (and other countries besides). Governments can influence their currencies only so much before they too become overstretched and their limits are tripped well below the level at which the developed/not yet developed part would no longer make sense. We're not talking about 10 or 20% here. The work goes to China because right now for some goods that makes the most sense to companies that have the option to choose. But this does not hold true for all goods and it will not hold true forever. There is absolutely no requirement for you to trade with them, simply stop buying anything made in China. As far as the lack of trade barriers goes, wasn't the US the biggest proponent of a free market worldwide?
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  >Bangladesh is definitely the site of a fairly impressive number of new factories. I couldn't see jack shit going on when I visited. Just clothing factories. Clothing always migrates to where the labor is cheapest because it is one of the least capital intensive industries and most labor intensive. Even then it was only in the area around Dhaka (and close to the container port). North of Dhaka there was basically nothing except poverty (which is pretty much what it's like in most of Central China, too). No infrastructure = no industry. >Governments can influence their currencies only so much before they too become overstretched What you meant to say was "governments can push the value of their currencies up only so much before being overstretched". Pushing them down isn't all that hard. Right? >As far as the lack of trade barriers goes, wasn't the US the biggest proponent of a free market worldwide? A) There's no such thing as a free market. It's an economic fairy tale. B) US oligarchs are big proponents for tearing down trade barriers. Union leaders not so much. C) Just how much do you think they cared about destroying US industry in the process?
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Clothing is how it starts. Not all that long ago Thailand was 'just clothing factories' and now they make a substantial chunk of the tech goodies shipped worldwide. Not all that long ago, China could make clothing, basic machinery and some consumer goods that were not too capital intensive. It's an incremental process. > Just how much do you think they cared about destroying US industry in the process? Not a whole lot. But then again, that's their prerogative under the system you have in place. If someone wanted to keep the jobs local and to exclusively source their half-fabricates from local producers under exclusive contract stating that they were required to maintain this all the way up their supply chain then such a person might have cornered the market against those willing to sell out your countries manufacturing backbone. The most likely outcome of such a plan would have been bankruptcy. It's an arms race and everybody that buys 'made in China' stuff because it is slightly cheaper is complicit.
    - crdoconnor 11y ago
      Thailand and South Korea used to be on roughly the same economic level in the 1970s. South Korea embraced protectionism. Thailand did not. One is a developed first world country and the other is a sex tourism destination. It is indeed an incremental process. An incremental process some countries never begin. >that's their prerogative Why is it the prerogative of American elites to set trade policy that benefits them and fucks the rest of us over?

jacquesm 11y ago

Bangladesh is definitely the site of a fairly impressive number of new factories. They don't have the tech expertise yet (that the Chinese do have now) so it will be a while but you can expect that they'll be moving up on the ladder soon enough. Lots of textile, shoes and other lower tech stuff already coming out of Bangladesh (and other countries besides). Governments can influence their currencies only so much before they too become overstretched and their limits are tripped well below the level at which the developed/not yet developed part would no longer make sense. We're not talking about 10 or 20% here. The work goes to China because right now for some goods that makes the most sense to companies that have the option to choose. But this does not hold true for all goods and it will not hold true forever. There is absolutely no requirement for you to trade with them, simply stop buying anything made in China. As far as the lack of trade barriers goes, wasn't the US the biggest proponent of a free market worldwide?

crdoconnor 11y ago
>Bangladesh is definitely the site of a fairly impressive number of new factories. I couldn't see jack shit going on when I visited. Just clothing factories. Clothing always migrates to where the labor is cheapest because it is one of the least capital intensive industries and most labor intensive. Even then it was only in the area around Dhaka (and close to the container port). North of Dhaka there was basically nothing except poverty (which is pretty much what it's like in most of Central China, too). No infrastructure = no industry. >Governments can influence their currencies only so much before they too become overstretched What you meant to say was "governments can push the value of their currencies up only so much before being overstretched". Pushing them down isn't all that hard. Right? >As far as the lack of trade barriers goes, wasn't the US the biggest proponent of a free market worldwide? A) There's no such thing as a free market. It's an economic fairy tale. B) US oligarchs are big proponents for tearing down trade barriers. Union leaders not so much. C) Just how much do you think they cared about destroying US industry in the process?
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Clothing is how it starts. Not all that long ago Thailand was 'just clothing factories' and now they make a substantial chunk of the tech goodies shipped worldwide. Not all that long ago, China could make clothing, basic machinery and some consumer goods that were not too capital intensive. It's an incremental process. > Just how much do you think they cared about destroying US industry in the process? Not a whole lot. But then again, that's their prerogative under the system you have in place. If someone wanted to keep the jobs local and to exclusively source their half-fabricates from local producers under exclusive contract stating that they were required to maintain this all the way up their supply chain then such a person might have cornered the market against those willing to sell out your countries manufacturing backbone. The most likely outcome of such a plan would have been bankruptcy. It's an arms race and everybody that buys 'made in China' stuff because it is slightly cheaper is complicit.
  - crdoconnor 11y ago
    Thailand and South Korea used to be on roughly the same economic level in the 1970s. South Korea embraced protectionism. Thailand did not. One is a developed first world country and the other is a sex tourism destination. It is indeed an incremental process. An incremental process some countries never begin. >that's their prerogative Why is it the prerogative of American elites to set trade policy that benefits them and fucks the rest of us over?