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Do you have any evidence that all the Middle Eastern scholars from the Middle Ages (no pun intended) have been practising Muslims? Did they work in complete iso

Do you have any evidence that all the Middle Eastern scholars from the Middle Ages (no pun intended) have been practising Muslims? Did they work in complete isolation from Europe? How so? Also, what exactly do you mean by „the winner” in this case? Do you imply that the Middle East has lost something particular due to external forces and hasn't been developing up to its potential? If so, what is that and what were those external forces? Did they come from Europe? How so? Even Eastern Europe? Even the parts of it that were forcefully joined to a Middle Eastern fiercely expansionist country like the Ottoman empire? How so?

Cyph0n 11y ago
1. Yes, quite a few of them were regarded as scholars in Islam. Some have seminal works on different aspects of Islamic science. During a certain period, memorizing the Quran and learning the essentials of Islamic science was a prerequisite to further pursuing study in the natural sciences. Keep in mind that this is not the rule, and depends on the specific time period, region, and "flavor" of Islam the scientist followed. 2. Just after the decline in power of the Ottoman Empire (around 1500 AD or so), Europe began to flourish. The Ottomans were not able to keep up, and were overpowered both in military might and scientific advancement. This worsened with the expansionary period in Europe (1600s-1700s), and reached its peak with the colonial period. The colonization of the entire Arab World and the fall of the Ottoman Empire together were just too much - Muslims were lost. Unfortunately, they put the blame on Islam while the blame was simply on lack of unity, general decadence of the ruling elite, and pursuit of material gain rather than scientific advancement. In addition, the colonial powers themselves made sure their subjects didn't get much done. Even after they left, the effects remained for quite some time. So scientific development was put on the side, and that's where we are now. As an example, in 2013, South Korea (pop. 50 million) was granted 120,000 patents. The entire Arab World (360 million) was granted only 7,000. We are just too far behind.
- thedavinci2000 11y ago
  The past is the past. No use complaining about it. The Americas were also raped by European colonialism but it makes no sese to dwell in it. Work towards the future.
  - Cyph0n 11y ago
    Yes, that's true. My biggest aim is to contribute in any way possible to bringing back Muslims to the forefront of scientific development. But remember that America has overcome and far surpassed its conquerors, so it's not a fair comparison. Once you reach that point, your troubled history becomes a strength.
    - smarinov 11y ago
      My suggestion would be to try and strengthen your region regardless or religion. The Middle East never was purely Muslim and I bet that nowadays there are a lot of atheists there just as we have a lot of them in Europe. Don't get me wrong, though. Go to mosque if you want to, read the Qur'an if this is your thing. Just, for the sake of humanity, please keep it separate from your scientific work. Thanks!
      - Cyph0n 11y ago
        You've got it backwards. We as Muslims believe that Islam comes first and is our main identity. Nation, region, and race come second. I'm Muslim first, then Tunisian, then Arab. I never said I'm going to mix circuit design with Islam. I will follow Islam, and I will make it my goal to further Islam and its status through my contributions to whatever field I'm working in.
        kken 11y ago
        Science is supposed to stand in its own. Neither state nor religion are relevant here.
        Cyph0n 11y ago
        They are relevant to the comment I replied to. If you think that scientific progress is not a valid technique to improve the standing of one's nation or religion, then I think you've got it wrong.
- smarinov 11y ago
  Someone else already addressed your second point, so I will give my two cents on the first one. I am perfectly aware of all this and I don't want to underestimate the importance of Islam in the Middle Ages. This was basically school education before we had our modern systems in place. In Europe all universities were innately Christian, in Western Asia and Northern Africa all madrassas were equally so Muslim in nature, so deep knowledge of the respective holy scriptures was of utmost importance there. However, we live in a globalised world nowadays and religion, save for religious studies, has no place in science. You may need to work with Christians, Jews, Muslims from the other side of the Sunni-Shi'a split, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, agnostics, or even outright atheists. All of them may be great specialists in their fields and you shouldn't dismiss potential collaboration with any based on prejudice. If you are a true believer, you should know that we are no ones to judge others since the power for this lies solely in the hands of God. If you are not, this is irrelevant for you altogether - just try to live a decent life and improve your community through hard work.
  - Cyph0n 11y ago
    I am fully aware of that. The guy asked a question about a specific time period, and I tried to answer it. Islam is not at all like Christianity when it comes to science. That's why Muslims were way ahead at their peak. For example, most philosophical works produced my Muslim scholars were based on that of the ancient Greeks, who were polytheists. Do you actually think it would make sense to reject someone else's work or not work with people because of a difference of belief?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
kken 11y ago
Religion does not have a place in science.

Cyph0n 11y ago

1. Yes, quite a few of them were regarded as scholars in Islam. Some have seminal works on different aspects of Islamic science. During a certain period, memorizing the Quran and learning the essentials of Islamic science was a prerequisite to further pursuing study in the natural sciences. Keep in mind that this is not the rule, and depends on the specific time period, region, and "flavor" of Islam the scientist followed. 2. Just after the decline in power of the Ottoman Empire (around 1500 AD or so), Europe began to flourish. The Ottomans were not able to keep up, and were overpowered both in military might and scientific advancement. This worsened with the expansionary period in Europe (1600s-1700s), and reached its peak with the colonial period. The colonization of the entire Arab World and the fall of the Ottoman Empire together were just too much - Muslims were lost. Unfortunately, they put the blame on Islam while the blame was simply on lack of unity, general decadence of the ruling elite, and pursuit of material gain rather than scientific advancement. In addition, the colonial powers themselves made sure their subjects didn't get much done. Even after they left, the effects remained for quite some time. So scientific development was put on the side, and that's where we are now. As an example, in 2013, South Korea (pop. 50 million) was granted 120,000 patents. The entire Arab World (360 million) was granted only 7,000. We are just too far behind.

thedavinci2000 11y ago
The past is the past. No use complaining about it. The Americas were also raped by European colonialism but it makes no sese to dwell in it. Work towards the future.
- Cyph0n 11y ago
  Yes, that's true. My biggest aim is to contribute in any way possible to bringing back Muslims to the forefront of scientific development. But remember that America has overcome and far surpassed its conquerors, so it's not a fair comparison. Once you reach that point, your troubled history becomes a strength.
  - smarinov 11y ago
    My suggestion would be to try and strengthen your region regardless or religion. The Middle East never was purely Muslim and I bet that nowadays there are a lot of atheists there just as we have a lot of them in Europe. Don't get me wrong, though. Go to mosque if you want to, read the Qur'an if this is your thing. Just, for the sake of humanity, please keep it separate from your scientific work. Thanks!
    - Cyph0n 11y ago
      You've got it backwards. We as Muslims believe that Islam comes first and is our main identity. Nation, region, and race come second. I'm Muslim first, then Tunisian, then Arab. I never said I'm going to mix circuit design with Islam. I will follow Islam, and I will make it my goal to further Islam and its status through my contributions to whatever field I'm working in.
      - kken 11y ago
        Science is supposed to stand in its own. Neither state nor religion are relevant here.
        Cyph0n 11y ago
        They are relevant to the comment I replied to. If you think that scientific progress is not a valid technique to improve the standing of one's nation or religion, then I think you've got it wrong.
smarinov 11y ago
Someone else already addressed your second point, so I will give my two cents on the first one. I am perfectly aware of all this and I don't want to underestimate the importance of Islam in the Middle Ages. This was basically school education before we had our modern systems in place. In Europe all universities were innately Christian, in Western Asia and Northern Africa all madrassas were equally so Muslim in nature, so deep knowledge of the respective holy scriptures was of utmost importance there. However, we live in a globalised world nowadays and religion, save for religious studies, has no place in science. You may need to work with Christians, Jews, Muslims from the other side of the Sunni-Shi'a split, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, agnostics, or even outright atheists. All of them may be great specialists in their fields and you shouldn't dismiss potential collaboration with any based on prejudice. If you are a true believer, you should know that we are no ones to judge others since the power for this lies solely in the hands of God. If you are not, this is irrelevant for you altogether - just try to live a decent life and improve your community through hard work.
- Cyph0n 11y ago
  I am fully aware of that. The guy asked a question about a specific time period, and I tried to answer it. Islam is not at all like Christianity when it comes to science. That's why Muslims were way ahead at their peak. For example, most philosophical works produced my Muslim scholars were based on that of the ancient Greeks, who were polytheists. Do you actually think it would make sense to reject someone else's work or not work with people because of a difference of belief?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

kken 11y ago

Religion does not have a place in science.