13 ms·

Coffee drinking linked to lower mortality risk again

95 points by colund 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
cageface 11y ago
As much as I love coffee and I'm happy to hear that drinking it is actually healthy, I think I'm just personally too sensitive to caffeine for it to be beneficial overall. My baseline stress level goes way up even with one cup a day and I have a much harder time falling and staying asleep. For some reason tea doesn't affect me as much.
- teslabox 11y ago
  do you use a sweetener with your coffee?
  - cageface 11y ago
    Never. Sometimes I drink it with milk though. If I drink it on a full stomach I can manage it better but it still jacks me up too much.
- chrisballinger 11y ago
  I've heard that the L-Theanine [1] in green tea is responsible for a calmer caffeine effect. Although I haven't tried it, I've heard that you can get the same results by taking a supplement before your morning coffee. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine
  - sbank 11y ago
    I second this, and have used it for years with caffeine for this exact reason. By itself it also has an anti-anxiolytic and calming effect, and has been used to treat ADHD as well. If you want to try it out, make sure you get Suntheanine. A dose that works for many is twice the theanine than caffeine, but YMMV.
  - InclinedPlane 11y ago
    I use L-Theanine and straight caffeine pills (100mg) as my preferred source of caffeine, it works very well. You get the alertness of caffeine without the annoying jittery feeling side effects.
- rdtsc 11y ago
  I like the taste of coffee as well but its caffeine is too jaring (compared to tea), so sometimes I drink decaf. Most decaf coffee is kind of meh. A few months ago I found a new one I like better (I think they tout some kind of cold water process for decaffenating). The taste is better but still different from normal coffee.
  - decafrules 11y ago
    Try decaf beans, if they're available in your local market (I buy them prepackaged in the supermarket here in the Netherlands). Grind them just before making the coffee and you won't taste the difference with 'real' coffee.
- meowface 11y ago
  How much time are you leaving between when you drink the coffee and go to sleep? If you drink it only before noon, then assuming you sleep somewhere around 10 PM - 2 AM, most of the caffeine should be out of your system.
  - cageface 11y ago
    I think I must be particularly sensitive to caffeine because even if I only have one cup in the morning I notice I still don't sleep as well. It may not be due to the caffeine directly but because of feeling agitated earlier in the day.
- whackedspinach 11y ago
  The benefits stated in the study seem to be present for both regular and decaf coffee, so if you like it, maybe seem if decaf suits you better.
- azatris 11y ago
  You should mix L-theanine with caffeine to get the best of both worlds. No need to take supplements, just drink the right tea as well, Oolong for one. http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics
google15 11y ago
Fascinating study, and the journal article is free online[0]. It's an observational study, but of a single occupation and large N, with many other factors accounted for[1]. My take is that coffee, like other psychoactive substances, contains powerful chemicals that are likely to have some effect on total mortality. I will stick to my two cups a day. [0] http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2015/11/10/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.017341.abstract http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2015/11/10/CIRCULA... [1] The regression models included calendar time in 2-y intervals as the time scale, and were stratified by age in years. In the multivariable analysis, we further adjusted for body mass index (BMI), physical activity, overall dietary pattern (aHEI), total energy intake, smoking status, sugar-sweetened beverage consumption and alcohol consumption, all of which were updated from follow-up questionnaires.
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  How did they correct for people who reduced their coffee use because of failing health? I mean, have they proven once and for all that drinking coffee is good for you, or just that healthy people drink more coffee? When you are diagnosed with hypertension, diabetes, heart disease etc, you tend to get the advice to drink less coffee. Older people start drinking less coffee as their health declines because it makes them jittery.
tmlee 11y ago
As much health benefits coffee has, always take then freshly brewed black. Tasty and prevents too much of sugar fat intake.
- privacy101 11y ago
  Both fats and sugars are helpful too, if you don't abuse them (probably the same for coffee).
  - thatswrong0 11y ago
    (Certain) fats yes.. but sugar? I can't imagine that it's helpful in any way.
    - privacy101 11y ago
      Quick energy is one use of sugars.
    - azm1 11y ago
      well you get suger in bread, fruits etc. You don't have to eat sweets to get daily intake of sugar(For example brain needs sugar for it to work). Brown sugar is definitely better as a sweetener compare to the white refined sugar as all the healthy parts are stripped.
      - orbifold 11y ago
        The brain needs glucose to function not sugar, which is one glucose and one fructose.
        geomark 11y ago
        Brain cells can use ketones instead of glucose. That's what happens on a diet that severely restricts carbohydrates.
        dpratt71 11y ago
mkagenius 11y ago
Now my brain is confused. It says, drink lot of coffee but what about caffeine addiction? Also, should I filter the coffee as it increases LDL cholestrol? Some even say cholestrol is not that bad. Also, is 5-9% better mortality rate worth considering? What about other stuff people with better mortality consumed? Did you know the effects of those substances on mortality?
- mrfusion 11y ago
  Increases ldl?
  - mkagenius 11y ago
    using filter decreases it, I mean :)
    - mrob 11y ago
      Specifically, by removing cafestol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol However, cafestol potentially also has beneficial health effects, so it is not necessarily bad. I'm not aware of any study comparing health outcomes (as opposed to blood test results) of filtered vs. non-filtered coffee. This latest study does not distinguish between them.
- meowface 11y ago
  Substance addiction would not necessarily affect mortality. In fact, addiction isn't necessarily bad for health at all, if you reliably feed it every day, and the beneficial effects outweigh the negatives one. For example, consuming moderate amounts of caffeine every day, but always at least 6-8 hours before bed.
  - mkagenius 11y ago
    3-5 cups seems too much to finish 6-8 hours before bed time. Seems like you will need to have coffee every two hours.
dghughes 11y ago
I drank a moderate amount of coffee but it gave me heartburn both the acid and the caffeine caused my GERD to be bad so I cut back and switched to decaf now my GERD is 99% gone. But I may quit since it's decaffeinated using methylene chloride which doesn't look very gut friendly or maybe I just discovered a cure for GERD.
- rikkus 11y ago
  Choose coffee which has been decaffeinated using a safe process such as Swiss Water. There are even some beans which taste very close to proper coffee after decaffeination.
  - dghughes 11y ago
    I agree but the Swiss water decaf method is hard to find or that method is not stated (So I assume it's the cheap way). I really don't drink enough to go out of my way finding it.
    - rikkus 11y ago
      In the UK Swiss water decaf is everywhere - maybe 50% of decaf. I buy my coffee through Amazon UK and there are lots of 'safe' decafs there.
yojo 11y ago
I'm skeptical that it is sound to just throw out smokers and make a claim about coffee health benefits. By taking people that use a lot of one common addictive substance (caffeine) and none of another (nicotine) they might just be selecting people with low potential for addiction/high will power. I believe those kinds of people might have lower mortality rates for reasons other than coffee consumption.
- yaniksilver 11y ago
  Just want to tell my experience here. Last Tuesday, I ordered a Cappuccino (strong). And I lit up a cigarette with it. Just after few minutes coming back to my work desk, I felt extreme headache and I fell from my seat unconscious. I was taken to a hospital near by and the doctor said your blood pressure is way higher than normal. (160/100) precisely. I believe that happened because of excess nicotine because I had no history of such blood pressure problem. I might be wrong but that was the case.
- keithpeter 11y ago
  Yes, I think that coffee-consumption could simply be a label that brings in other lifestyle factors. However, even among the non-smokers, the meta-study did find a difference between no-coffee and moderate-coffee groups. That may be pointing towards some of those 1000 compounds for further study...
- polyfractal 11y ago
  It's very common to remove smokers from studies like this (anything looking at mortality). Smoking increases your chance of so many health issues: heart disease, lung cancer, COPD, high blood pressure, stroke, aortic aneurysm, general infection due to chronic inflammation, etc etc. It's well documented and pretty unambiguous. If you smoke, your risk of all the above increases dramatically. Which means as a researcher you can't leave these people in a study looking at mortality rates since they would confound the results too much. Basically, the risk of confounding your results with smoking-related mortality is a bigger problem than biasing your population with fewer people who consume addictive substances. Source: I'm an ex-molecular biologist, my significant other is a PA.
motosynthesis 11y ago
As stated in the article, we can't be certain of causation. I tend to prefer a simpler approach. The simple act of moving lowers the risk factors for cardiovascular disease. 5 cups of coffee per day is going to get most people moving.
- semi-extrinsic 11y ago
  > 5 cups of coffee per day is going to get most people moving. You could even hypothesise that people who live more hectic lives (and thus move more) are likely to drink more coffee.
- ycosynot 11y ago
  Another simple approach is that the 'cultural context' of coffee drinkers, and the perception of oneself as productive, is going to lead to a more healthy nutrition & lifestyle, to fit the pattern. I believe people naturally are harmonious in their behavior.
- alexlikeits1999 11y ago
  Another explanation is that people with bad livers can't handle coffee (slow to break it down), so this is just selection-bias.
parasight 11y ago
I fight nasty withdrawal symptoms like severe headache, fatigue, and rheumatic pains right now after not drinking coffee for two days. It feels like a really bad flu. From experience I know that this will be better very soon. That is the reason why I want to give up coffee completely. I don't want to be addicted to a substance. I don't like to get headache or feel tired only because I choose to not drink coffee for a day. Maybe there will be a day when I can not get a coffee. I don't drink that much coffee. A pot of coffee in the morning and usually 2 - 3 espressos during the day. I guess I am sensitive to it.
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  > I don't drink that much coffee. A pot of coffee in the morning and usually 2 - 3 espressos during the day. I guess I am sensitive to it. That is a lot of coffee. I have an Americano in the morning. If I have two it's not great for my stomach and if I have two in the morning I really better not have one again until five. If you're drinking it as your drink rather than as a stimulant try switching to tea.
  - dasboth 11y ago
    I agree, I'd say that's a lot. I have two shots a day (either espressos or americanos, usually one of each) and I find that if I have a third I always feel terrible. I get agitated and jittery, so I guess that's a way to control my intake because I always stop at 2 now.
- genericacct 11y ago
  Here to confirm that you're drinking quite a bit of it; i have been trying to limit myself to 2 mild espressos per day after having reached 6. Addicted to caffeine for 30 years and counting...
- orthoganol 11y ago
  I am a skinny person, and I drink only 2 cups of coffee per day, tops, and I suffer the exact same withdrawal symptoms. Once I feel the symptoms it's too late, Advil doesn't help, coffee doesn't help, I can't look at screens for long, all I can really do is lay in bed and try to sleep it off. However, I've learned that I have a window where I can sense symptoms might onset in the next couple of hours, and if I take an Advil then I'll avoid the symptoms. I really need to try the nootropics everyone recommends. Coffee really only helps me power through semi-mindless work, if I need true clarity and original thinking I have to get comfortable in a quiet place and let my mind wander, and coffee doesn't help with that. (And while we're here I'll just say that's why I'm an advocate of remote setups for programmers, unless you only have semi-mindless work to do at your office).
andrewvc 11y ago
These studies that equate lower mortality with good for you ( that is always the implication ) are quite harmful I think. When people say "I just read something that says coffee is good for you again" that's where the harm is done. This says only that you may die a little later in life, the question of whether it is good for you is alltogether separate. Now it may be that things that make you live longer are generally good for you in the comprehensive sense, but there are better ways to measure that.

95 points by colund 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

As much as I love coffee and I'm happy to hear that drinking it is actually healthy, I think I'm just personally too sensitive to caffeine for it to be beneficial overall. My baseline stress level goes way up even with one cup a day and I have a much harder time falling and staying asleep. For some reason tea doesn't affect me as much.

teslabox 11y ago
do you use a sweetener with your coffee?
- cageface 11y ago
  Never. Sometimes I drink it with milk though. If I drink it on a full stomach I can manage it better but it still jacks me up too much.
chrisballinger 11y ago
I've heard that the L-Theanine [1] in green tea is responsible for a calmer caffeine effect. Although I haven't tried it, I've heard that you can get the same results by taking a supplement before your morning coffee. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine
- sbank 11y ago
  I second this, and have used it for years with caffeine for this exact reason. By itself it also has an anti-anxiolytic and calming effect, and has been used to treat ADHD as well. If you want to try it out, make sure you get Suntheanine. A dose that works for many is twice the theanine than caffeine, but YMMV.
- InclinedPlane 11y ago
  I use L-Theanine and straight caffeine pills (100mg) as my preferred source of caffeine, it works very well. You get the alertness of caffeine without the annoying jittery feeling side effects.
rdtsc 11y ago
I like the taste of coffee as well but its caffeine is too jaring (compared to tea), so sometimes I drink decaf. Most decaf coffee is kind of meh. A few months ago I found a new one I like better (I think they tout some kind of cold water process for decaffenating). The taste is better but still different from normal coffee.
- decafrules 11y ago
  Try decaf beans, if they're available in your local market (I buy them prepackaged in the supermarket here in the Netherlands). Grind them just before making the coffee and you won't taste the difference with 'real' coffee.
meowface 11y ago
How much time are you leaving between when you drink the coffee and go to sleep? If you drink it only before noon, then assuming you sleep somewhere around 10 PM - 2 AM, most of the caffeine should be out of your system.
- cageface 11y ago
  I think I must be particularly sensitive to caffeine because even if I only have one cup in the morning I notice I still don't sleep as well. It may not be due to the caffeine directly but because of feeling agitated earlier in the day.
whackedspinach 11y ago
The benefits stated in the study seem to be present for both regular and decaf coffee, so if you like it, maybe seem if decaf suits you better.
azatris 11y ago
You should mix L-theanine with caffeine to get the best of both worlds. No need to take supplements, just drink the right tea as well, Oolong for one. http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics

google15 11y ago

Fascinating study, and the journal article is free online[0]. It's an observational study, but of a single occupation and large N, with many other factors accounted for[1]. My take is that coffee, like other psychoactive substances, contains powerful chemicals that are likely to have some effect on total mortality. I will stick to my two cups a day. [0] http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2015/11/10/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.017341.abstract http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2015/11/10/CIRCULA... [1] The regression models included calendar time in 2-y intervals as the time scale, and were stratified by age in years. In the multivariable analysis, we further adjusted for body mass index (BMI), physical activity, overall dietary pattern (aHEI), total energy intake, smoking status, sugar-sweetened beverage consumption and alcohol consumption, all of which were updated from follow-up questionnaires.

wobbleblob 11y ago
How did they correct for people who reduced their coffee use because of failing health? I mean, have they proven once and for all that drinking coffee is good for you, or just that healthy people drink more coffee? When you are diagnosed with hypertension, diabetes, heart disease etc, you tend to get the advice to drink less coffee. Older people start drinking less coffee as their health declines because it makes them jittery.

tmlee 11y ago

As much health benefits coffee has, always take then freshly brewed black. Tasty and prevents too much of sugar fat intake.

privacy101 11y ago
Both fats and sugars are helpful too, if you don't abuse them (probably the same for coffee).
- thatswrong0 11y ago
  (Certain) fats yes.. but sugar? I can't imagine that it's helpful in any way.
  - privacy101 11y ago
    Quick energy is one use of sugars.
  - azm1 11y ago
    well you get suger in bread, fruits etc. You don't have to eat sweets to get daily intake of sugar(For example brain needs sugar for it to work). Brown sugar is definitely better as a sweetener compare to the white refined sugar as all the healthy parts are stripped.
    - orbifold 11y ago
      The brain needs glucose to function not sugar, which is one glucose and one fructose.
      - geomark 11y ago
        Brain cells can use ketones instead of glucose. That's what happens on a diet that severely restricts carbohydrates.
      - dpratt71 11y ago

mkagenius 11y ago

Now my brain is confused. It says, drink lot of coffee but what about caffeine addiction? Also, should I filter the coffee as it increases LDL cholestrol? Some even say cholestrol is not that bad. Also, is 5-9% better mortality rate worth considering? What about other stuff people with better mortality consumed? Did you know the effects of those substances on mortality?

mrfusion 11y ago
Increases ldl?
- mkagenius 11y ago
  using filter decreases it, I mean :)
  - mrob 11y ago
    Specifically, by removing cafestol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol However, cafestol potentially also has beneficial health effects, so it is not necessarily bad. I'm not aware of any study comparing health outcomes (as opposed to blood test results) of filtered vs. non-filtered coffee. This latest study does not distinguish between them.
meowface 11y ago
Substance addiction would not necessarily affect mortality. In fact, addiction isn't necessarily bad for health at all, if you reliably feed it every day, and the beneficial effects outweigh the negatives one. For example, consuming moderate amounts of caffeine every day, but always at least 6-8 hours before bed.
- mkagenius 11y ago
  3-5 cups seems too much to finish 6-8 hours before bed time. Seems like you will need to have coffee every two hours.

dghughes 11y ago

I drank a moderate amount of coffee but it gave me heartburn both the acid and the caffeine caused my GERD to be bad so I cut back and switched to decaf now my GERD is 99% gone. But I may quit since it's decaffeinated using methylene chloride which doesn't look very gut friendly or maybe I just discovered a cure for GERD.

rikkus 11y ago
Choose coffee which has been decaffeinated using a safe process such as Swiss Water. There are even some beans which taste very close to proper coffee after decaffeination.
- dghughes 11y ago
  I agree but the Swiss water decaf method is hard to find or that method is not stated (So I assume it's the cheap way). I really don't drink enough to go out of my way finding it.
  - rikkus 11y ago
    In the UK Swiss water decaf is everywhere - maybe 50% of decaf. I buy my coffee through Amazon UK and there are lots of 'safe' decafs there.

yojo 11y ago

I'm skeptical that it is sound to just throw out smokers and make a claim about coffee health benefits. By taking people that use a lot of one common addictive substance (caffeine) and none of another (nicotine) they might just be selecting people with low potential for addiction/high will power. I believe those kinds of people might have lower mortality rates for reasons other than coffee consumption.

yaniksilver 11y ago
Just want to tell my experience here. Last Tuesday, I ordered a Cappuccino (strong). And I lit up a cigarette with it. Just after few minutes coming back to my work desk, I felt extreme headache and I fell from my seat unconscious. I was taken to a hospital near by and the doctor said your blood pressure is way higher than normal. (160/100) precisely. I believe that happened because of excess nicotine because I had no history of such blood pressure problem. I might be wrong but that was the case.
keithpeter 11y ago
Yes, I think that coffee-consumption could simply be a label that brings in other lifestyle factors. However, even among the non-smokers, the meta-study did find a difference between no-coffee and moderate-coffee groups. That may be pointing towards some of those 1000 compounds for further study...
polyfractal 11y ago
It's very common to remove smokers from studies like this (anything looking at mortality). Smoking increases your chance of so many health issues: heart disease, lung cancer, COPD, high blood pressure, stroke, aortic aneurysm, general infection due to chronic inflammation, etc etc. It's well documented and pretty unambiguous. If you smoke, your risk of all the above increases dramatically. Which means as a researcher you can't leave these people in a study looking at mortality rates since they would confound the results too much. Basically, the risk of confounding your results with smoking-related mortality is a bigger problem than biasing your population with fewer people who consume addictive substances. Source: I'm an ex-molecular biologist, my significant other is a PA.

motosynthesis 11y ago

As stated in the article, we can't be certain of causation. I tend to prefer a simpler approach. The simple act of moving lowers the risk factors for cardiovascular disease. 5 cups of coffee per day is going to get most people moving.

semi-extrinsic 11y ago
> 5 cups of coffee per day is going to get most people moving. You could even hypothesise that people who live more hectic lives (and thus move more) are likely to drink more coffee.
ycosynot 11y ago
Another simple approach is that the 'cultural context' of coffee drinkers, and the perception of oneself as productive, is going to lead to a more healthy nutrition & lifestyle, to fit the pattern. I believe people naturally are harmonious in their behavior.
alexlikeits1999 11y ago
Another explanation is that people with bad livers can't handle coffee (slow to break it down), so this is just selection-bias.

parasight 11y ago

I fight nasty withdrawal symptoms like severe headache, fatigue, and rheumatic pains right now after not drinking coffee for two days. It feels like a really bad flu. From experience I know that this will be better very soon. That is the reason why I want to give up coffee completely. I don't want to be addicted to a substance. I don't like to get headache or feel tired only because I choose to not drink coffee for a day. Maybe there will be a day when I can not get a coffee. I don't drink that much coffee. A pot of coffee in the morning and usually 2 - 3 espressos during the day. I guess I am sensitive to it.

barry-cotter 11y ago
> I don't drink that much coffee. A pot of coffee in the morning and usually 2 - 3 espressos during the day. I guess I am sensitive to it. That is a lot of coffee. I have an Americano in the morning. If I have two it's not great for my stomach and if I have two in the morning I really better not have one again until five. If you're drinking it as your drink rather than as a stimulant try switching to tea.
- dasboth 11y ago
  I agree, I'd say that's a lot. I have two shots a day (either espressos or americanos, usually one of each) and I find that if I have a third I always feel terrible. I get agitated and jittery, so I guess that's a way to control my intake because I always stop at 2 now.
genericacct 11y ago
Here to confirm that you're drinking quite a bit of it; i have been trying to limit myself to 2 mild espressos per day after having reached 6. Addicted to caffeine for 30 years and counting...
orthoganol 11y ago
I am a skinny person, and I drink only 2 cups of coffee per day, tops, and I suffer the exact same withdrawal symptoms. Once I feel the symptoms it's too late, Advil doesn't help, coffee doesn't help, I can't look at screens for long, all I can really do is lay in bed and try to sleep it off. However, I've learned that I have a window where I can sense symptoms might onset in the next couple of hours, and if I take an Advil then I'll avoid the symptoms. I really need to try the nootropics everyone recommends. Coffee really only helps me power through semi-mindless work, if I need true clarity and original thinking I have to get comfortable in a quiet place and let my mind wander, and coffee doesn't help with that. (And while we're here I'll just say that's why I'm an advocate of remote setups for programmers, unless you only have semi-mindless work to do at your office).

andrewvc 11y ago

These studies that equate lower mortality with good for you ( that is always the implication ) are quite harmful I think. When people say "I just read something that says coffee is good for you again" that's where the harm is done. This says only that you may die a little later in life, the question of whether it is good for you is alltogether separate. Now it may be that things that make you live longer are generally good for you in the comprehensive sense, but there are better ways to measure that.