7 ms·

From Wikipedia: > AquAdvantage salmon are triploid (having three chromosomes instead of just two) female Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar), with a single copy of t

From Wikipedia: > AquAdvantage salmon are triploid (having three chromosomes instead of just two) female Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar), with a single copy of the opAFP-GHc2 construct, which codes for a promoter from ocean pout and a growth hormone from Chinook salmon., 8 These transferred genes allow the genetically modified fish to achieve accelerated growth rates, which confer longer survival and reproductive success. At what point do we stop calling it salmon? Reminds me of the Ship of Theseus: > The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their places, in so much that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same. — Plutarch, Theseus Plutarch thus questions whether the ship would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AquAdvantage_salmon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AquAdvantage_salmon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

nickbauman 11y ago
The ship is not the same as what happens to it. The river is not just the water that's streaming in the channel. You are not just what happens to you. State is not identity, if it were, the past would always change and there would be no history. State is not identity, in programming and in real life.
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  Not sure what that means. If a ship is burned to ashes, then is it still a ship? If those ashes are then mixed with other substances to form construction material from which a home is built, is it still a ship? If wood from a forest is never assembled into a ship, is it still a ship? State and identity seem intrinsically linked.
  - mkehrt 11y ago
    Relatedly: http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/10/03/140815154/dissolve-my-nobel-prize-fast-a-true-story http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/10/03/140815154/di...
    - unclebucknasty 11y ago
      The gold did not cease to exist, any more than did the ashes from the burned ship. But, the Nobel medals did cease to exist, as did the ship. The gold could be refashioned into more medals. But, they would not be the same medals. The gold could also be fashioned into a necklace, or two necklaces. If this were not so, then the statement "state and identity are not the same" would be meaningless, because there would be no need for the word "identity" in any case.
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    >State and identity seem intrinsically linked. They aren't. Two dollar bills are equal, but not identical; they are only coincidentally related. Things that are identical are always equal but things that are equal are not always identical. To compare identity, a thing must be compared to itself in the real world, thus is the ship still the same ship it was before, even if all the parts have been replaced. The answer is open to debate, both sides have valid arguments.
    - unclebucknasty 11y ago
      Not sure we're using the same context, but I still believe that the state of a thing absolutely contributes to the identity of a thing. If you dissolve the ink from a dollar bill such that it's just a piece of paper, would you still say it's a dollar bill? I would say no. Its state has changed and, thus, has its identity (i.e. how we identify it). But, if you say, "yes, it's still a dollar bill, albeit in a deteriorated condition", then you have to answer the question, "when did it first become a dollar bill?" In so doing, you must acknowledge that it underwent a state change at some point which changed its identity in the first place. Identity is something we impute, based in no small part on the state of a thing. Lastly, I think your mention of equality vs identity is flipped. They are only equal by one coincidental (arbitrary) measure: monetary value. But, you could just as soon measure the physical dimensions or weight. But, while they are not necessarily equal, they are identical: that is, we identify them each as dollar bills.
davidw 11y ago
Speaking of that ship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution#Present_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution#Present_day "The detachment estimates that approximately 10–15 percent of the timber in Constitution contains original material installed during her initial construction period in the years 1795–1797."

nickbauman 11y ago

The ship is not the same as what happens to it. The river is not just the water that's streaming in the channel. You are not just what happens to you. State is not identity, if it were, the past would always change and there would be no history. State is not identity, in programming and in real life.

unclebucknasty 11y ago
Not sure what that means. If a ship is burned to ashes, then is it still a ship? If those ashes are then mixed with other substances to form construction material from which a home is built, is it still a ship? If wood from a forest is never assembled into a ship, is it still a ship? State and identity seem intrinsically linked.
- mkehrt 11y ago
  Relatedly: http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/10/03/140815154/dissolve-my-nobel-prize-fast-a-true-story http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/10/03/140815154/di...
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    The gold did not cease to exist, any more than did the ashes from the burned ship. But, the Nobel medals did cease to exist, as did the ship. The gold could be refashioned into more medals. But, they would not be the same medals. The gold could also be fashioned into a necklace, or two necklaces. If this were not so, then the statement "state and identity are not the same" would be meaningless, because there would be no need for the word "identity" in any case.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  >State and identity seem intrinsically linked. They aren't. Two dollar bills are equal, but not identical; they are only coincidentally related. Things that are identical are always equal but things that are equal are not always identical. To compare identity, a thing must be compared to itself in the real world, thus is the ship still the same ship it was before, even if all the parts have been replaced. The answer is open to debate, both sides have valid arguments.
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    Not sure we're using the same context, but I still believe that the state of a thing absolutely contributes to the identity of a thing. If you dissolve the ink from a dollar bill such that it's just a piece of paper, would you still say it's a dollar bill? I would say no. Its state has changed and, thus, has its identity (i.e. how we identify it). But, if you say, "yes, it's still a dollar bill, albeit in a deteriorated condition", then you have to answer the question, "when did it first become a dollar bill?" In so doing, you must acknowledge that it underwent a state change at some point which changed its identity in the first place. Identity is something we impute, based in no small part on the state of a thing. Lastly, I think your mention of equality vs identity is flipped. They are only equal by one coincidental (arbitrary) measure: monetary value. But, you could just as soon measure the physical dimensions or weight. But, while they are not necessarily equal, they are identical: that is, we identify them each as dollar bills.

davidw 11y ago

Speaking of that ship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution#Present_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution#Present_day "The detachment estimates that approximately 10–15 percent of the timber in Constitution contains original material installed during her initial construction period in the years 1795–1797."