5 ms·

People "coming and going" at all hours? How is that a problem? People are allowed to go into and out of their houses at any hour. Are you going to get all pissy

by imgabe 11y ago

People "coming and going" at all hours? How is that a problem? People are allowed to go into and out of their houses at any hour. Are you going to get all pissy if your neighbor works odd hours and gets home at 3am every night? If you're talking about a residential area with single family homes, how likely is it you're actually going to hear or notice someone entering or leaving your neighbor's house in the middle of the night? "Partying until 3am" is possibly a problem. That's what noise ordinances are for.

jacquesm 11y ago
> People are allowed to go into and out of their houses at any hour. They're allowed to, sure. But in practice the expectation is that these are the exceptions, not the rule and apartments are typically constructed with that expectation in mind. > Are you going to get all pissy if your neighbor works odd hours and gets home at 3am every night? No, where did you get that impression? My neighbor, who works odd hours and gets home at 3am every night is a considerate person and has a long term relationship with me, his neighbor. And that's why he tries not to slam the door and he doesn't invite his 4 drunk friends over to his digs for 24 hours. > If you're talking about a residential area with single family homes, how likely is it you're actually going to hear or notice someone entering or leaving your neighbor's house in the middle of the night? I'm not talking about 'single family homes', I'm talking about apartments in just about every major city where AirBNB and such are getting people very upset. > "Partying until 3am" is possibly a problem. That's what noise ordinances are for. Yes, except that if your 'neighbors' change every 24 hours they don't give a damn about their reputation they will just do it until the police shows up and then do it somewhere else the next day.
- imgabe 11y ago
  It's no doubt the exception for AirBnB guests as well. Most people, even when they're staying out of town, don't throw wild parties in the middle of the night. > Yes, except that if your 'neighbors' change every 24 hours they don't give a damn about their reputation they will just do it until the police shows up and then do it somewhere else the next day. Really? Are we positing that there are roving bands of assholes who travel from one AirBnB to the next, throwing wild parties every night? Is there something to back that up? If such people exist, I doubt they'd find a lack of AirBnB sufficient motivation to be a respectful neighbor. Living around other human beings means that sometimes someone does something that annoys you. Yeah, it sucks if there's a party and you have to call the police one night. It happens. That's part of the cost of living in a society. There's a lot of benefits too.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    The city of Amsterdam has created a 'meldpunt' for issues with short term stay residents (such as AirBNB guests), they probably did this because they have an excess of funds and need to spend that money somehow. I'm kind of surprised that you think that there is no impact from having an AirBNB hostel in your apartment, you probably have no idea what a typical Amsterdam-centrum house look like but you should probably believe me that coming-and-going is something that you'd most definitely notice and a party in one of those old houses might as well happen in your house. Hotel guests on average do not behave like residents, they're on a holiday after all and are out to have some fun. In Amsterdam that usually translates into going out, doing drugs and visiting the red light district. Elderly ladies and tourgroups tend to stay in hotels. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with people renting out their single-family home in whatever way they see fit but when your next door neighbor is a paper wall away you can't just set up a hotel in the same building without taking some pretty good measures that there won't be any negative impact for the other residents.
    - imgabe 11y ago
      I'm fine with that being regulated by the property manager or the landlord prohibiting sub-letting (as most leases do). Amsterdam is a unique situation since it attracts people who are specifically there to do things that are illegal in the places they come from. That's not the majority of AirBnB usage. I don't think we need city-wide regulations limiting what people can do with their own property.
      - jacquesm 11y ago
        That's not how it works. Apartments are owned by individuals who are jointly members of an owners association. So there is no 'property manager' and there are usually no 'landlords'. In rental places this is not a problem but it is a problem for people that own apartments in the old city.
        imgabe 11y ago
        If the owners association is anything like a condo board or a homeowners association in the US, they should have more than enough authority to enact whatever rules they want in their building. If they don't, maybe they can amend their bylaws so that they do. I do think that most bad behavior is already covered by existing laws. Yes, the guests might not care, but the owner ultimately has to own the place and answer to the local authorities and the owners association or whatnot. If there are constant complaints about your property, you're going to be held accountable for it, whether you live there or not.

by imgabe 11y ago

jacquesm 11y ago

> People are allowed to go into and out of their houses at any hour. They're allowed to, sure. But in practice the expectation is that these are the exceptions, not the rule and apartments are typically constructed with that expectation in mind. > Are you going to get all pissy if your neighbor works odd hours and gets home at 3am every night? No, where did you get that impression? My neighbor, who works odd hours and gets home at 3am every night is a considerate person and has a long term relationship with me, his neighbor. And that's why he tries not to slam the door and he doesn't invite his 4 drunk friends over to his digs for 24 hours. > If you're talking about a residential area with single family homes, how likely is it you're actually going to hear or notice someone entering or leaving your neighbor's house in the middle of the night? I'm not talking about 'single family homes', I'm talking about apartments in just about every major city where AirBNB and such are getting people very upset. > "Partying until 3am" is possibly a problem. That's what noise ordinances are for. Yes, except that if your 'neighbors' change every 24 hours they don't give a damn about their reputation they will just do it until the police shows up and then do it somewhere else the next day.

imgabe 11y ago
It's no doubt the exception for AirBnB guests as well. Most people, even when they're staying out of town, don't throw wild parties in the middle of the night. > Yes, except that if your 'neighbors' change every 24 hours they don't give a damn about their reputation they will just do it until the police shows up and then do it somewhere else the next day. Really? Are we positing that there are roving bands of assholes who travel from one AirBnB to the next, throwing wild parties every night? Is there something to back that up? If such people exist, I doubt they'd find a lack of AirBnB sufficient motivation to be a respectful neighbor. Living around other human beings means that sometimes someone does something that annoys you. Yeah, it sucks if there's a party and you have to call the police one night. It happens. That's part of the cost of living in a society. There's a lot of benefits too.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  The city of Amsterdam has created a 'meldpunt' for issues with short term stay residents (such as AirBNB guests), they probably did this because they have an excess of funds and need to spend that money somehow. I'm kind of surprised that you think that there is no impact from having an AirBNB hostel in your apartment, you probably have no idea what a typical Amsterdam-centrum house look like but you should probably believe me that coming-and-going is something that you'd most definitely notice and a party in one of those old houses might as well happen in your house. Hotel guests on average do not behave like residents, they're on a holiday after all and are out to have some fun. In Amsterdam that usually translates into going out, doing drugs and visiting the red light district. Elderly ladies and tourgroups tend to stay in hotels. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with people renting out their single-family home in whatever way they see fit but when your next door neighbor is a paper wall away you can't just set up a hotel in the same building without taking some pretty good measures that there won't be any negative impact for the other residents.
  - imgabe 11y ago
    I'm fine with that being regulated by the property manager or the landlord prohibiting sub-letting (as most leases do). Amsterdam is a unique situation since it attracts people who are specifically there to do things that are illegal in the places they come from. That's not the majority of AirBnB usage. I don't think we need city-wide regulations limiting what people can do with their own property.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      That's not how it works. Apartments are owned by individuals who are jointly members of an owners association. So there is no 'property manager' and there are usually no 'landlords'. In rental places this is not a problem but it is a problem for people that own apartments in the old city.
      - imgabe 11y ago
        If the owners association is anything like a condo board or a homeowners association in the US, they should have more than enough authority to enact whatever rules they want in their building. If they don't, maybe they can amend their bylaws so that they do. I do think that most bad behavior is already covered by existing laws. Yes, the guests might not care, but the owner ultimately has to own the place and answer to the local authorities and the owners association or whatnot. If there are constant complaints about your property, you're going to be held accountable for it, whether you live there or not.