6 ms·

Did humans approach the southern tip of South America more than 18k years ago?

30 points by duaneb 11y ago

dang 11y ago
Url changed from https://medium.com/@johnhawks/did-humans-approach-the-southern-tip-of-south-america-more-than-18-000-years-ago-a97414475718#.cw6ae5w1m https://medium.com/@johnhawks/did-humans-approach-the-southe..., which points to this.
- duaneb 11y ago
  Many thanks.
JoeAltmaier 11y ago
The Inuit have sea-going kayaks that can ride waves down the coast for 100's of miles with barely touching a paddle. I've wondered why, once the Bering Strait was crossed, it would take more than one summer for early explorers to 'discover' North and South America.
- willvarfar 11y ago
  I think I recall reading about how surprised Inuit communities in Canada were to encounter the early western explorers; they didn't know they weren't the only humans in the world. Which raises the question, why didn't the Inuit explore south?
  - CamperBob2 11y ago
    History is full of cultures and civilizations that could have explored, but didn't. They're pretty much all gone now.
  - dalke 11y ago
    I don't think that's correct. The Inuit surely knew of the Cree. Eg, http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/film/film-reviews/inuit-cree-reconciliation-a-documentary-built-on-oral-history/article16099365/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/film/film-reviews/inuit-... . Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit#Prehistory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit#Prehistory : > Inuit had trade relations with more southern cultures; boundary disputes were common and gave rise to aggressive actions. That page also addresses your question, saying "The culture and technology of Inuit society that served so well in the Arctic were not suited to subarctic regions, so they did not displace their southern neighbors."
  - mordechai9000 11y ago
    Some isolated groups aside, there was widespread travel and trade in the era prior to the arrival of Europeans. But it could be risky. When you depend on a migratory existence, screwing up can mean watching your family starve. Not to mention, some groups were hostile. The Athabascans living on the Koyukuk river were supposably the last group of Alaskan natives to make contact with white people. When they met up with Russian fur traders, they already had tobacco and metal artifacts. Of course, prior to that, people did explore south, in the course of the settlement of the Americas.
    - willvarfar 11y ago
      I don't know the episode I am recalling, but it was on QI. And they said that all their metal things were from meteorites.
      - dalke 11y ago
        The Copper Inuit in northern Canada ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Inuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Inuit ) mined and worked their own copper. > [They] exchanged goods, particularly copper and driftwood, with the Inuvialuit, the Caribou Inuit, and the Netsilik. There were occasional contacts with Athapaskan Indians to their south - http://what-when-how.com/native-americans/inuit-copper-native-americans-of-the-arctic/ http://what-when-how.com/native-americans/inuit-copper-nativ... In addition to meteoric iron, the Inuit of Greenland also used telluric iron - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_iron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_iron .
        willvarfar 11y ago
        Here's the episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQdOrE_PO0c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQdOrE_PO0c http://www.comedy.co.uk/guide/tv/qi/episodes/7/4/ http://www.comedy.co.uk/guide/tv/qi/episodes/7/4/ "- The Arctic Highlanders got their cutlery from metal that came from three meteorites. A man called Ross (after whom Ross Sea is named and who was the first man ever to get up close to the North Pole) observed that a tribe of 200 Inuits in 1818, whom he was the first to encounter, made their cutlery from bone and from the metal taken from three meteorites that they named "The Woman", "The Dog" and "The Tent", after what they thought they looked like. The tribe thought that they were the only people on the planet before Ross met them. 70 years later, Admiral Peary, who claimed to be the first man to reach the North Pole (although the claim is now largely discredited) stole the meteorites and sold them to a museum for $40,000. He also took six Inuit children with him, four of whom died of tuberculosis immediately. One of them survived and was brought up by an American couple. He then discovered that his father's bones where a public exhibit in the Natural History Museum in New York. He complained but Peary refused to do anything about it. However, he did give him enough money to return home. The bones were not returned till 1993." So for all the examples of Inuit populations that did know there were others, here's one that apparently didn't.
- pavement 11y ago
  Honestly, it takes a lot of motivation and bravery to chart courses that extend beyond your normal radius of activity. Most people need someone or something to force their hand. What makes us get out of our cozy beds every morning? Probably the fear that somehow the future of the bed and its immediate coziness are threatened by a chaotic world.
- hugh4 11y ago
  Firstly the Eskimos probably didnt have quite such fancy kayaks eighteen thousand years ago. Secondly though, if you're struggling to survive in a vast empty landscape already you don't have a lot of time or motivation for ten thousand mile voyages of exploration. Travel a hundred miles and you're really tired and you're in a different part of Alaska where you don't know where the good food and water sources are. Keep travelling yet further and eventually you reach a place where you don't even know what food sources look like.
  - contingencies 11y ago
    These are all good points. Clothing is another issue when changing climatic zones.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Coastal seaweed along the American west is all edible, nutritious and pervasive. No need to find food or water - every inlet is a freshwater creek. It would be a lark for a young blood wanting to get away for a while.
    - duaneb 11y ago
      As a whole, anthropologists and archaeologists are more motivated by cultural movements than "a young blood wanting to get away for a while". Single people don't leave much to the archaeological record.
- contingencies 11y ago
  sea-going kayaks that can ride waves down the coast for 100's of miles with barely touching a paddle As a sailor (not a kayaker) with an interest in early boats and navigation, I am very interested to read further about how this process is supposed to work. Do you have a link?
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Sorry actually my last reference is a Spider Robinson story. So take it with a grain of salt. Here's a modern link: http://paddling.about.com/od/advancedpaddling/ht/oc_kayak_surfing.htm http://paddling.about.com/od/advancedpaddling/ht/oc_kayak_su...

30 points by duaneb 11y ago

dang 11y ago

Url changed from https://medium.com/@johnhawks/did-humans-approach-the-southern-tip-of-south-america-more-than-18-000-years-ago-a97414475718#.cw6ae5w1m https://medium.com/@johnhawks/did-humans-approach-the-southe..., which points to this.

duaneb 11y ago
Many thanks.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

The Inuit have sea-going kayaks that can ride waves down the coast for 100's of miles with barely touching a paddle. I've wondered why, once the Bering Strait was crossed, it would take more than one summer for early explorers to 'discover' North and South America.

willvarfar 11y ago
I think I recall reading about how surprised Inuit communities in Canada were to encounter the early western explorers; they didn't know they weren't the only humans in the world. Which raises the question, why didn't the Inuit explore south?
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  History is full of cultures and civilizations that could have explored, but didn't. They're pretty much all gone now.
- dalke 11y ago
  I don't think that's correct. The Inuit surely knew of the Cree. Eg, http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/film/film-reviews/inuit-cree-reconciliation-a-documentary-built-on-oral-history/article16099365/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/film/film-reviews/inuit-... . Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit#Prehistory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit#Prehistory : > Inuit had trade relations with more southern cultures; boundary disputes were common and gave rise to aggressive actions. That page also addresses your question, saying "The culture and technology of Inuit society that served so well in the Arctic were not suited to subarctic regions, so they did not displace their southern neighbors."
- mordechai9000 11y ago
  Some isolated groups aside, there was widespread travel and trade in the era prior to the arrival of Europeans. But it could be risky. When you depend on a migratory existence, screwing up can mean watching your family starve. Not to mention, some groups were hostile. The Athabascans living on the Koyukuk river were supposably the last group of Alaskan natives to make contact with white people. When they met up with Russian fur traders, they already had tobacco and metal artifacts. Of course, prior to that, people did explore south, in the course of the settlement of the Americas.
  - willvarfar 11y ago
    I don't know the episode I am recalling, but it was on QI. And they said that all their metal things were from meteorites.
    - dalke 11y ago
      The Copper Inuit in northern Canada ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Inuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Inuit ) mined and worked their own copper. > [They] exchanged goods, particularly copper and driftwood, with the Inuvialuit, the Caribou Inuit, and the Netsilik. There were occasional contacts with Athapaskan Indians to their south - http://what-when-how.com/native-americans/inuit-copper-native-americans-of-the-arctic/ http://what-when-how.com/native-americans/inuit-copper-nativ... In addition to meteoric iron, the Inuit of Greenland also used telluric iron - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_iron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_iron .
      - willvarfar 11y ago
        Here's the episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQdOrE_PO0c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQdOrE_PO0c http://www.comedy.co.uk/guide/tv/qi/episodes/7/4/ http://www.comedy.co.uk/guide/tv/qi/episodes/7/4/ "- The Arctic Highlanders got their cutlery from metal that came from three meteorites. A man called Ross (after whom Ross Sea is named and who was the first man ever to get up close to the North Pole) observed that a tribe of 200 Inuits in 1818, whom he was the first to encounter, made their cutlery from bone and from the metal taken from three meteorites that they named "The Woman", "The Dog" and "The Tent", after what they thought they looked like. The tribe thought that they were the only people on the planet before Ross met them. 70 years later, Admiral Peary, who claimed to be the first man to reach the North Pole (although the claim is now largely discredited) stole the meteorites and sold them to a museum for $40,000. He also took six Inuit children with him, four of whom died of tuberculosis immediately. One of them survived and was brought up by an American couple. He then discovered that his father's bones where a public exhibit in the Natural History Museum in New York. He complained but Peary refused to do anything about it. However, he did give him enough money to return home. The bones were not returned till 1993." So for all the examples of Inuit populations that did know there were others, here's one that apparently didn't.
pavement 11y ago
Honestly, it takes a lot of motivation and bravery to chart courses that extend beyond your normal radius of activity. Most people need someone or something to force their hand. What makes us get out of our cozy beds every morning? Probably the fear that somehow the future of the bed and its immediate coziness are threatened by a chaotic world.
hugh4 11y ago
Firstly the Eskimos probably didnt have quite such fancy kayaks eighteen thousand years ago. Secondly though, if you're struggling to survive in a vast empty landscape already you don't have a lot of time or motivation for ten thousand mile voyages of exploration. Travel a hundred miles and you're really tired and you're in a different part of Alaska where you don't know where the good food and water sources are. Keep travelling yet further and eventually you reach a place where you don't even know what food sources look like.
- contingencies 11y ago
  These are all good points. Clothing is another issue when changing climatic zones.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Coastal seaweed along the American west is all edible, nutritious and pervasive. No need to find food or water - every inlet is a freshwater creek. It would be a lark for a young blood wanting to get away for a while.
  - duaneb 11y ago
    As a whole, anthropologists and archaeologists are more motivated by cultural movements than "a young blood wanting to get away for a while". Single people don't leave much to the archaeological record.
contingencies 11y ago
sea-going kayaks that can ride waves down the coast for 100's of miles with barely touching a paddle As a sailor (not a kayaker) with an interest in early boats and navigation, I am very interested to read further about how this process is supposed to work. Do you have a link?
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Sorry actually my last reference is a Spider Robinson story. So take it with a grain of salt. Here's a modern link: http://paddling.about.com/od/advancedpaddling/ht/oc_kayak_surfing.htm http://paddling.about.com/od/advancedpaddling/ht/oc_kayak_su...