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I keep seeing these dire warnings whenever Telegram is mentioned, and I don't understand the hate. Is it some super secure platform? Probably not, but people ne

I keep seeing these dire warnings whenever Telegram is mentioned, and I don't understand the hate. Is it some super secure platform? Probably not, but people needing a provably NSA-resistant chat client is such a tiny percentage of the people interested in regular chatting. None of the warnings I see have the nuance of "don't use it if you think it'll keep you safe from the government, but otherwise it's a pretty nice service to use" nor do they list the chat services that they feel are more secure. Compared to the alternatives of Skype, WhatsApp, SMS, Hangouts, iMessage, etc it's a good chat service, with a relatively lightweight native client on multiple platforms, actual working sync, and good recovery when used on poor Internet connection.

fabulist 11y ago
People don't like Telegram because they claim to be a company which cares deeply about security and privacy, offering a "200% secure" chat client, while blatantly ignoring the concerns of the security community. Doing things like using a hand-rolled, proofless KDF isn't just a bad idea when considering a nation-state adversary. It's a bad idea against every adversary. It's the cryptographic equivalent of staking an ADT sign in your yard without purchasing an alarm. It is unethical to market snake oil.
Chris2048 11y ago
The press have been bad-mouthing our cars recently based on the fact that they explode violently if they crash. Are they super-duper safe? No. Will driving our cars grant you immortality? also, No. But no car can promise this, and driving any car inherently runs the risk of dying - No car is provably 100% safe! If you're really worried about this, just don't drive! Most car drivers won't care anyway, very few people crash their cars on a day-to-day basis, so it's not really relevant. </good-natured-sarcasm> exaggerated/straw-man comparisons, or appeal-to-low-standards doesn't really satisfy these kind of concerns... <good-natured-sarcasm>
mikeash 11y ago
"Telegram is a messaging app with a focus on speed and security...." If it's not actually secure then they shouldn't advertise it as secure. An app that advertises itself as secure but isn't is naturally going to attract more hate than an app which doesn't advertise security in the first place. Nobody forced them to advertise security. If they just wanted to be a a good chat service with the advantages you listed, they could just do that. But if you advertise security, you had better deliver!
sarciszewski 11y ago
> I keep seeing these dire warnings whenever Telegram is mentioned, and I don't understand the hate. The hate stems from two main sources: 1. They're claiming to be secure in a very flamboyant (even arrogant) manner by challenging the world's cryptographers to break their protocol, but the contest is structured to be unwinnable regardless of how shitty their crypto actually is. 2. Telegram spends less time improving their crypto (which is full of WTFs) and instead markets themselves to people who aren't technical enough to figure out how shitty it really is. Seriously, avoid Telegram. If you want Signal to work on more platforms, send a check to Open Whisper Systems and help them build up their team to cover more area.
- mSparks 11y ago
  Terrorists are secure whatever they do. The 4 or 5 people in the nsa that actually do any work don't stand a chance against several hundred million baby breeders with ak47s.

fabulist 11y ago

People don't like Telegram because they claim to be a company which cares deeply about security and privacy, offering a "200% secure" chat client, while blatantly ignoring the concerns of the security community. Doing things like using a hand-rolled, proofless KDF isn't just a bad idea when considering a nation-state adversary. It's a bad idea against every adversary. It's the cryptographic equivalent of staking an ADT sign in your yard without purchasing an alarm. It is unethical to market snake oil.

Chris2048 11y ago

The press have been bad-mouthing our cars recently based on the fact that they explode violently if they crash. Are they super-duper safe? No. Will driving our cars grant you immortality? also, No. But no car can promise this, and driving any car inherently runs the risk of dying - No car is provably 100% safe! If you're really worried about this, just don't drive! Most car drivers won't care anyway, very few people crash their cars on a day-to-day basis, so it's not really relevant. </good-natured-sarcasm> exaggerated/straw-man comparisons, or appeal-to-low-standards doesn't really satisfy these kind of concerns... <good-natured-sarcasm>

mikeash 11y ago

"Telegram is a messaging app with a focus on speed and security...." If it's not actually secure then they shouldn't advertise it as secure. An app that advertises itself as secure but isn't is naturally going to attract more hate than an app which doesn't advertise security in the first place. Nobody forced them to advertise security. If they just wanted to be a a good chat service with the advantages you listed, they could just do that. But if you advertise security, you had better deliver!

sarciszewski 11y ago

> I keep seeing these dire warnings whenever Telegram is mentioned, and I don't understand the hate. The hate stems from two main sources: 1. They're claiming to be secure in a very flamboyant (even arrogant) manner by challenging the world's cryptographers to break their protocol, but the contest is structured to be unwinnable regardless of how shitty their crypto actually is. 2. Telegram spends less time improving their crypto (which is full of WTFs) and instead markets themselves to people who aren't technical enough to figure out how shitty it really is. Seriously, avoid Telegram. If you want Signal to work on more platforms, send a check to Open Whisper Systems and help them build up their team to cover more area.

mSparks 11y ago
Terrorists are secure whatever they do. The 4 or 5 people in the nsa that actually do any work don't stand a chance against several hundred million baby breeders with ak47s.