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Copenhagenizing Paris
- jmnicolas 11y agoAs usual with the French left, a lot of wishful thinking but not much will be done (a lot of money will be spent though). I bet you that by 2020 Paris will not be the best bicycle city in the world, far from it. And btw, we French don't have a bicycle culture. For us every day bicycling (not sport) is for people that can't afford a car (and the rare idealists that think they're going to save the planet). I'm always amazed at the number of bikes I see when I go in Germany or Holland (never went to Denmark). It's not a matter of money, they are richer than us, it's really cultural. If you really want to see more bicycles on French roads you need gas to be at about 2€ / liter (Google says it's about 8 bucks for a gallon).
- cellover 11y agoI totally agree on the 2020 goal: it seems totally really un-reasonnable to me too. You simply don't change a car-centric population in 5 years! I commute by bike everyday, 10 km, in a medium city in the french alps. Every single day I encounter a situation where I am concretely in danger. French drivers suck and simply don't care about bike riders. When you ride a bicycle in Berlin or Tokyo you truly sense what it's like to be actually considered, and it changes all your interface with the city!
- louhike 11y agoAs a cyclist (not an idealist though), I consider the major problem in France to be the infrastructure. A lot of people do not use their bike because it is dangerous in the cities and because there are almost no place to park your bike. I suppose it is because of the car culture as you said. It was not considered worth it to invest in it until recently.
- crocal 11y agoThis. And the fact that Paris has a good metro network coverage.
- Arnt 11y agoThe Paris metro is really nice, but bicycling would be faster if the traffic lights etc were friendly. It's a nice dense city where you could go far in 20 minutes on a bicycle. On the metro it's easy to waste 20 minutes just on the extras — walking to/from the station, inside the stations, waiting for the trains. Each of these things takes just a few minutes because the stations are close and the trains run often, but few+few+few so easily =30, particularly if you have to change trains.
- kaeluka 11y ago> And btw, we French don't have a bicycle culture. Yet!
- Juliate 11y agoBicycling is also for people that already find it way more convenient/enjoyable/cheaper/faster/ to move through a city. The incentive is not only on gas price, but on the whole experience, where the environment/infrastructure play a lot. Architecture governs. When moving/parking your car is slow, complex, expensive, whereas using a bike (be it powered or not), public transportation or your feets is not, depending on your travel, the choice is quickly made. Some cities are rearchitecting around this whole experience. Paris, Nantes (for those I know well) have been doing this for several years already, and it's a long, painful process for everyone and every business, but that definitely feels like a good thing.
- jmnicolas 11y ago> Bicycling is also for people that already find it way more convenient/enjoyable/cheaper/faster/ to move through a city. I don't get the "enjoyable" part. Maybe it's because I live in the country, but the thought of taking deep breaths in an environment saturated with car exhausts would stop me.
- frenchman_in_ny 11y ago> we French don't have a bicycle culture. For us every day bicycling (not sport) is for people that can't afford a car (and the rare idealists that think they're going to save the planet). Have you been to Strasbourg recently? There's definitely a bicycle culture there...
- jmnicolas 11y agoNot recently, but given Strasbourg is literally touching Germany I'm not surprised.
- atemerev 11y agoCars are for humans, too.
- claudius 11y agoCars need much more space and emit much more…stuff (noise, particles, you-name-it) than any other form of transport.
- atemerev 11y agoNot if electrical (and also air transportation is the pollution champion – not that we should stop flying). As for space — space is a market product. If space is at premium, people should pay more, e.g., by paid car entrance into downtown.
- gkya 11y agoNow, guns are not made for kittens too, no?
- atemerev 11y agoGuns are good. I live in the most gun-happy country in Europe (Switzerland); no problems here.
- Majestic121 11y agoIn dense urban area, such as Paris, car takes a lot of very precious space. They also significantly reduce the life expectancy of the other humans in the city, directly (via accidents) or indirectly (via pollution) It seems to be a good idea to try and limit car usage as much as possible, and doing that implies making other alternatives, such as bike, more practical and pleasant. Again, this is speaking for dense urban area like Paris. Maybe things are different were you live.
- huskyr 11y agoHere are 60 humans and the space required to transport them by car, bus and bicycle: http://imgur.com/mxGXuuR http://imgur.com/mxGXuuR
- crocal 11y agoFWIW, when you are a Parisian and you know what "copenhagenize" means, someone claiming to "copenhagenize Paris" is not welcomed these days, considering the attacks we just suffered.
- gkya 11y agoWould you mind elaborating a little?
- crocal 11y agoI did just above. You can also read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Copenhagen_(1807) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Copenhagen_(1807)
- teh_klev 11y agoYou've lost me. Can you explain what encouraging safe cycling spaces has to do with the recent attacks, and why the former is considered unwelcome?
- crocal 11y agoCopenhagenize is a term that was coined after the second battle of Copenhagen in 1807. During this battle, the British fleet surrounded the city and massively bombarded it to submission. The entire Danish fleet was seized or destroyed. The destruction was so complete that a new word was invented: to "copenhagenize" a city is NOT a nice thing to say.
- teh_klev 11y agoI think you've got your facts a bit wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagenization_(naval) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagenization_(naval) "Copenhagenization refers to the practice of confiscating the warships of a defeated enemy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_advocacy#Copenhagenization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_advocacy#Copenhageniza... "Copenhagenization is a design strategy in which urban planning and design are centered on making a city more accessible to bicyclists and pedestrians, and less car dependent" I think we can be sensible and infer that they mean the latter, and not some obscure 19th century naval terminology for confiscating ships, and therefore no offence intended.
- crocal 11y agoFWIW, when you are a Parisian and you know what "copenhagenize" means, someone claiming to "copenhagenize Paris" is not welcomed these days, considering the attacks we just suffered.
- genug 11y ago> the current sub-standard understanding of Best Practice infrastructure > Best Practice has been established. It's ridiculous to try and reinvent the wheel. > It's simple if Paris wants it to be. If the author thinks that the understanding of "Best Practice" is substandard, maybe he should post a link to what he means, instead of leaving the term undefined and then acting smug about it. Googling "Best Practice bicycle" returns a number of documents from different cities. It's unclear which of these (if any) correspond to the author's idea of "best practice" for cycling infrastructure. I did find a post by the same author (http://www.copenhagenize.com/2013/04/the-copenhagenize-bicycle-planning-guide.html http://www.copenhagenize.com/2013/04/the-copenhagenize-bicyc...) which advertises itself as a "planning guide", but is actually just a poster made by someone who was apparently more interested in graphic design than in actually conveying information.