9 ms·

What's wrong with treating someone's culture as a costume? If I find Mexican clothing nice, let's say, and I wear it to a "let's celebrate Mexico" party, how o

What's wrong with treating someone's culture as a costume? If I find Mexican clothing nice, let's say, and I wear it to a "let's celebrate Mexico" party, how on earth is that offensive? Is it also offensive when the people of some other country wear American clothing and use red solo cups at their parties?

thex10 11y ago
That's the best example of all, pal. There aren't candidates of arguably the most powerful nation in the world getting airtime to millions to holler about deporting your kind just because you're Mexican To elaborate: It's cherry-picking. Why should people pick fun/cute/cool parts of a culture without considering the utter bullshit hurled at that culture for it existing?
- littletimmy 11y ago
  I don't understand your point. Can you rephrase it? Are you saying that just because people say bad things about Mexican culture no one should be allowed to participate in it?
  - ForHackernews 11y ago
    There's a difference between participating in a culture and crudely caricaturing it.
    - littletimmy 11y ago
      Is there a way to participate in a culture that does not open one up immediately to the charge of caricaturing it?
      - ForHackernews 11y ago
        I see we've reached the point in the discussion where HN readers demand for human interpersonal relationships to be spelled out with the same rigor as an RFC.
        simoncion 11y ago
        Well, it's good that you're not thex10, and littletimmy still stands a chance at getting an enlightening answer to his question. :)
  - thex10 11y ago
    Sorry for my delay - HN thought I was submitting too fast and then I had to go to bed. :) The gist of what I'm thinking is this: Cherry picking the good without at least acknowledging the bad feeds into a longer process of erasure. Like textbooks insinuating that Africans in colonial times were treated akin to indentured servants rather than slaves - this stuff makes an impression on the overall majority, resulting in the bigger problem where the majority lacks empathy for the struggles of others because they genuinely don't think there's a noteworthy problem. (Which wouldn't matter much, except the majority has significant power and thus can inadvertently enact actual harm!) So I don't want to contribute to that attitude, and I don't want anyone in the HN community to contribute to that attitude either. There are ways to appreciate the variety of cultures the world has to offer without being exploitative, ignorant, or otherwise harmful. It just requires work that we as a society are not very accustomed to doing, thus there are a stunning amount of otherwise smart people who need this spelled out very clearly. Some possible ideas that can make your theoretical Mexican party into a better Mexican party: - Involve a Mexican in the planning - Cater the food by a Mexican company - Find a Mexican resource for clothing, decorations, etc - Have entertainment from actual Mexicans rather than people costuming as 'Mexican' - Invite some Mexicans to the party, they're peers after all These will all help humanize Mexicans to any non-Mexicans at your party. (Don't fuss about whether you find a person immediately immigrated from Mexico versus 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant. Anything's better than nothing.) (I'm not Mexican, though I do happen to be Latina). More on non-appropriation: A helpful visual example in the Blackhawks logo: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/11/18/culturally-appropriate-chicago-blackhawks-logo-first-nations-artist-goes-viral-162457 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/11/18/cultura...
- throwaway2932 11y ago
  This is the attitude that concerns me the most. Preventing people from participating in each others' cultures promotes segregation. How on Earth are people supposed to learn to appreciate each others' cultures if they aren't allowed to participate in the fun/cute/cool parts? I would think doing so promotes a decrease in said candidates shouting things.
  - lingben 11y ago
    Exactly. I shared this on here already but I'll share it again because it encapsulates what is going on so well: http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginzers-spoopy-roxxi-ginzers http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginz...

thex10 11y ago

That's the best example of all, pal. There aren't candidates of arguably the most powerful nation in the world getting airtime to millions to holler about deporting your kind just because you're Mexican To elaborate: It's cherry-picking. Why should people pick fun/cute/cool parts of a culture without considering the utter bullshit hurled at that culture for it existing?

littletimmy 11y ago
I don't understand your point. Can you rephrase it? Are you saying that just because people say bad things about Mexican culture no one should be allowed to participate in it?
- ForHackernews 11y ago
  There's a difference between participating in a culture and crudely caricaturing it.
  - littletimmy 11y ago
    Is there a way to participate in a culture that does not open one up immediately to the charge of caricaturing it?
    - ForHackernews 11y ago
      I see we've reached the point in the discussion where HN readers demand for human interpersonal relationships to be spelled out with the same rigor as an RFC.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        Well, it's good that you're not thex10, and littletimmy still stands a chance at getting an enlightening answer to his question. :)
- thex10 11y ago
  Sorry for my delay - HN thought I was submitting too fast and then I had to go to bed. :) The gist of what I'm thinking is this: Cherry picking the good without at least acknowledging the bad feeds into a longer process of erasure. Like textbooks insinuating that Africans in colonial times were treated akin to indentured servants rather than slaves - this stuff makes an impression on the overall majority, resulting in the bigger problem where the majority lacks empathy for the struggles of others because they genuinely don't think there's a noteworthy problem. (Which wouldn't matter much, except the majority has significant power and thus can inadvertently enact actual harm!) So I don't want to contribute to that attitude, and I don't want anyone in the HN community to contribute to that attitude either. There are ways to appreciate the variety of cultures the world has to offer without being exploitative, ignorant, or otherwise harmful. It just requires work that we as a society are not very accustomed to doing, thus there are a stunning amount of otherwise smart people who need this spelled out very clearly. Some possible ideas that can make your theoretical Mexican party into a better Mexican party: - Involve a Mexican in the planning - Cater the food by a Mexican company - Find a Mexican resource for clothing, decorations, etc - Have entertainment from actual Mexicans rather than people costuming as 'Mexican' - Invite some Mexicans to the party, they're peers after all These will all help humanize Mexicans to any non-Mexicans at your party. (Don't fuss about whether you find a person immediately immigrated from Mexico versus 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant. Anything's better than nothing.) (I'm not Mexican, though I do happen to be Latina). More on non-appropriation: A helpful visual example in the Blackhawks logo: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/11/18/culturally-appropriate-chicago-blackhawks-logo-first-nations-artist-goes-viral-162457 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/11/18/cultura...
throwaway2932 11y ago
This is the attitude that concerns me the most. Preventing people from participating in each others' cultures promotes segregation. How on Earth are people supposed to learn to appreciate each others' cultures if they aren't allowed to participate in the fun/cute/cool parts? I would think doing so promotes a decrease in said candidates shouting things.
- lingben 11y ago
  Exactly. I shared this on here already but I'll share it again because it encapsulates what is going on so well: http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginzers-spoopy-roxxi-ginzers http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginz...