4 ms·

I'm a student at Brown University, and these issues have been at the front of campus-related tensions for the last 2 years (perhaps longer, but I wasn't aware o

I'm a student at Brown University, and these issues have been at the front of campus-related tensions for the last 2 years (perhaps longer, but I wasn't aware of them then). Your post reflects the most vocal attitude on campus at the moment (the "free-speech" faction is shrewdly keeping silent). I'm up-voting your post because you echo the perspective of many of my peers who I respect, and I want to give others on HN the opportunity to respond to your post without it being hidden. I do not know of any black people at my school who openly criticize this recent string of college protests (the debate seems to be predominantly centered around blacks in these incidents). Surely, if this pain is something only black people can understand and they are so united in this movement, then it suggests that their grievances ARE legitimate. ... and yet, something feels wrong here. Something feels wrong when I see hyperbolic signs like "our culture is not a costume" or retroactive counterarguments like "it's not only about the Halloween Costumes". Something feels wrong when I see people sharing FB statuses with #concernedstudent1950 when it implies they support the demands made by the student group [1]. Something feels wrong when my peers believe that whites cannot be the victims of racism, due to their racial privilege. I don't have a good response to your points, but I'm interested to see others' replies to your comment. At any rate, all I'm sure of is that the political climate has dramatically changed in the last 2 years. [1] http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/columbiatribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/45/345ad844-9f05-5479-9b64-e4b362b4e155/563fd24f5a949.pdf.pdf http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/columbiatribune....

fweespeech 11y ago
He is largely being down voted for simultaneously invoking history while ignoring the right to protest exists only because of free speech and the right to assemble. The ability to have protests like we've seen on campuses and elsewhere are defended entirely on 1st amendment grounds. Watering that down to push an agenda, no matter how righteous, is the kind of idea only those truly ignorant of history would propose. http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/civil-rights-first-amendment http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/civil-rights-first-amend... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independe... etc.
- ericjang 11y ago
  Your username checks out, so take my upvote. That said, the debate has moved past centering on First Amendment Rights as the point of contention; rather, the issue is whether students should dress in "offensive" Halloween Costumes even if they are legally allowed to.
  - fweespeech 11y ago
    Hypothetical: If the situation was the reverse of now and the majority was openly racist and found anti-racism costumes offensive [say, Martin Luther King Jr costumes] ... would you still favor banning "offensive" costumes? I guess I just feel we don't have the luxury of determining what speech should be allowed because sometimes the majority is in the wrong.
    - aidenn0 11y ago
      Actually, since I'm white, I think it would be considered racist were I to dress as MLK Jr. ...
      - fweespeech 11y ago
        Do you genuinely not understand I'm talking about a member of a minority doing that?
        aidenn0 11y ago
        I actually did upon first reading, but it was very late.
        fweespeech 11y ago
        Ah okay, sorry. Now I think its clear that I wasn't talking about white people doing it, yeah?
  - mc32 11y ago
ebola1717 11y ago
> Surely, if this pain is something only black people can understand and they are so united in this movement, then it suggests that their grievances ARE legitimate. Please don't stop here - please try to understand where their grievances are coming from. College is when a lot of people are at their most radical, and on top of that, a lot of nuance is lost in soundbites. There's a lot of noise out there. I think something especially important that's lost on people here is how emotionally exhausting it is to live in a place where you're constantly denigrated (I mean it's the root of that word, lol). It's especially hard to draw an empathetic picture when there's no common personably relatable situation to draw a comparison to. Like at best you could say "it's like getting picked on for being a nerd," except that misses the hundreds of years of American slavery, Jim Crow, mass incarceration, media representation, and a hundred other small issues. And then that's multiplied by the fact that when you try to explain it to a single person, you face a mountain of resistance every time, and the rest of your society doesn't really want to hear your complaints. Most people in this thread won't even acknowledge that they MIGHT have a point! Imagine that every day in every interaction for your entire life!

fweespeech 11y ago

He is largely being down voted for simultaneously invoking history while ignoring the right to protest exists only because of free speech and the right to assemble. The ability to have protests like we've seen on campuses and elsewhere are defended entirely on 1st amendment grounds. Watering that down to push an agenda, no matter how righteous, is the kind of idea only those truly ignorant of history would propose. http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/civil-rights-first-amendment http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/civil-rights-first-amend... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independe... etc.

ericjang 11y ago
Your username checks out, so take my upvote. That said, the debate has moved past centering on First Amendment Rights as the point of contention; rather, the issue is whether students should dress in "offensive" Halloween Costumes even if they are legally allowed to.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  Hypothetical: If the situation was the reverse of now and the majority was openly racist and found anti-racism costumes offensive [say, Martin Luther King Jr costumes] ... would you still favor banning "offensive" costumes? I guess I just feel we don't have the luxury of determining what speech should be allowed because sometimes the majority is in the wrong.
  - aidenn0 11y ago
    Actually, since I'm white, I think it would be considered racist were I to dress as MLK Jr. ...
    - fweespeech 11y ago
      Do you genuinely not understand I'm talking about a member of a minority doing that?
      - aidenn0 11y ago
        I actually did upon first reading, but it was very late.
        fweespeech 11y ago
        Ah okay, sorry. Now I think its clear that I wasn't talking about white people doing it, yeah?
- mc32 11y ago

ebola1717 11y ago

> Surely, if this pain is something only black people can understand and they are so united in this movement, then it suggests that their grievances ARE legitimate. Please don't stop here - please try to understand where their grievances are coming from. College is when a lot of people are at their most radical, and on top of that, a lot of nuance is lost in soundbites. There's a lot of noise out there. I think something especially important that's lost on people here is how emotionally exhausting it is to live in a place where you're constantly denigrated (I mean it's the root of that word, lol). It's especially hard to draw an empathetic picture when there's no common personably relatable situation to draw a comparison to. Like at best you could say "it's like getting picked on for being a nerd," except that misses the hundreds of years of American slavery, Jim Crow, mass incarceration, media representation, and a hundred other small issues. And then that's multiplied by the fact that when you try to explain it to a single person, you face a mountain of resistance every time, and the rest of your society doesn't really want to hear your complaints. Most people in this thread won't even acknowledge that they MIGHT have a point! Imagine that every day in every interaction for your entire life!