4 ms·

Is it really infantilizing people to ask them not to wear offensive costumes? Is a polite request so absurd between adults?

by Pxtl 11y ago

lingben 11y ago
So who decides what is or is not offensive? Can anyone? How is one to predict what may or may not offend someone? What if I find your comment and tone offensive? does that mean that you have to now remove it? or that you'll censor youself in the future, lest you continue to offend me? And if you attempt to question the genuineness of my offense, then I take further offense at you attempting to de-legitimizing my original offense taken. To ground my point by way of example, consider this lunacy about the cry of "Japanese cultural appropriation" and how that is 'offensive': http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginzers-spoopy-roxxi-ginzers http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginz... Happily it was put to rest (by an ethnically Japanese person) but this is typical of the insanity that has taken over most campuses in the US right now Yes, it is infantalization to request that others self-censor just in case they may cause offense to you. there is no 'right to not be offended': https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs?t=201 https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs?t=201
- Pxtl 11y ago
  Hypothetically, if somebody went out to halloween as Foetus-Eating Penis Hitler, I'd think we'd agree it's tasteless and inappropriate. At that point, everything is a spectrum between the banal and the monstrous. You just draw the line in different spots from others.
  - lingben 11y ago
    Actually, I'm not sure we'd agree. Personally I'd probably find that costume hilarious (depending on how well it was executed) but then I have a dark sense of humor. For example, I find this anecdote from John Cleese about his mother hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f74L2hRZE1Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f74L2hRZE1Y But let's assume that I found that costume 'offensive'. What would I be entitled to do? that is, what should I be able to do? Nothing. That is, other than get offended, I don't have a right to do anything other than that. I certainly don't have a right to not be offended. Taking offense is so subjective that it is meaningless. Think of it this way, you may not like mayo on your french fries but a lot of people do. Does that mean that you have to force others to not enjoy their french fries with mayo? No. It just means that you eat what you like and leave others to enjoy the foods they enjoy. Gosh... now that I've typed that out I hardly can believe that it has become so irrational that we have to actually spell out such things to one another as adults in the year 2015. sigh
fatjokes 11y ago
> Is a polite request so absurd between adults? This is the key point. Yale basically "politely requested" that students do not wear offensive costumes, but that they are adults and are free to make their own decisions and that the school would take no official action. This was the point of protest by the safe-spacers.
lexcorvus 11y ago
It's not about politeness; it's about political power. In particular, the definition of "polite" is entirely asymmetric, with "marginalized groups" (basically, everyone but straight white males) given carte blanche to police others' speech and actions. In the case of Halloween costumes, you can see the asymmetry easily: a Native American man can dress as the Lone Ranger, but a white man can't dress as Tonto. (More precisely, a white man complaining that it's racist for a Native American to dress as the Lone Ranger would probably be ignored, and might even be called a racist himself.) This has a rationalization, of course; it's OK because straight white males perpetuate "structural racism," imposing a "heteropatriarchy" on gays, women, and people of color. The practical result involves stripping power from straight white males and giving it to everyone else. From an adaptive point of view, ripping off chunks of power and giving them to your supporters is a winning political formula. But pleasant nostrums about sticking up for the downtrodden are little more than a thin veneer over a good old-fashioned tribal throwdown.

Is it really infantilizing people to ask them not to wear offensive costumes? Is a polite request so absurd between adults?

by Pxtl 11y ago

Is it really infantilizing people to ask them not to wear offensive costumes? Is a polite request so absurd between adults?

lingben 11y ago

So who decides what is or is not offensive? Can anyone? How is one to predict what may or may not offend someone? What if I find your comment and tone offensive? does that mean that you have to now remove it? or that you'll censor youself in the future, lest you continue to offend me? And if you attempt to question the genuineness of my offense, then I take further offense at you attempting to de-legitimizing my original offense taken. To ground my point by way of example, consider this lunacy about the cry of "Japanese cultural appropriation" and how that is 'offensive': http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginzers-spoopy-roxxi-ginzers http://cheshireinthemiddle.tumblr.com/post/131407267302/ginz... Happily it was put to rest (by an ethnically Japanese person) but this is typical of the insanity that has taken over most campuses in the US right now Yes, it is infantalization to request that others self-censor just in case they may cause offense to you. there is no 'right to not be offended': https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs?t=201 https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs?t=201

Pxtl 11y ago
Hypothetically, if somebody went out to halloween as Foetus-Eating Penis Hitler, I'd think we'd agree it's tasteless and inappropriate. At that point, everything is a spectrum between the banal and the monstrous. You just draw the line in different spots from others.
- lingben 11y ago
  Actually, I'm not sure we'd agree. Personally I'd probably find that costume hilarious (depending on how well it was executed) but then I have a dark sense of humor. For example, I find this anecdote from John Cleese about his mother hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f74L2hRZE1Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f74L2hRZE1Y But let's assume that I found that costume 'offensive'. What would I be entitled to do? that is, what should I be able to do? Nothing. That is, other than get offended, I don't have a right to do anything other than that. I certainly don't have a right to not be offended. Taking offense is so subjective that it is meaningless. Think of it this way, you may not like mayo on your french fries but a lot of people do. Does that mean that you have to force others to not enjoy their french fries with mayo? No. It just means that you eat what you like and leave others to enjoy the foods they enjoy. Gosh... now that I've typed that out I hardly can believe that it has become so irrational that we have to actually spell out such things to one another as adults in the year 2015. sigh

fatjokes 11y ago

> Is a polite request so absurd between adults? This is the key point. Yale basically "politely requested" that students do not wear offensive costumes, but that they are adults and are free to make their own decisions and that the school would take no official action. This was the point of protest by the safe-spacers.

lexcorvus 11y ago

It's not about politeness; it's about political power. In particular, the definition of "polite" is entirely asymmetric, with "marginalized groups" (basically, everyone but straight white males) given carte blanche to police others' speech and actions. In the case of Halloween costumes, you can see the asymmetry easily: a Native American man can dress as the Lone Ranger, but a white man can't dress as Tonto. (More precisely, a white man complaining that it's racist for a Native American to dress as the Lone Ranger would probably be ignored, and might even be called a racist himself.) This has a rationalization, of course; it's OK because straight white males perpetuate "structural racism," imposing a "heteropatriarchy" on gays, women, and people of color. The practical result involves stripping power from straight white males and giving it to everyone else. From an adaptive point of view, ripping off chunks of power and giving them to your supporters is a winning political formula. But pleasant nostrums about sticking up for the downtrodden are little more than a thin veneer over a good old-fashioned tribal throwdown.